THIRD REICH AoD MOD

[Gringoesteban]

Boom!!

Well, I was finally making progress on the Eastern Front. Stalingrad and Baku fell and the Wehrmacht was closing in on Sverdlovsk.

And the air war over Europe had turned in my favor too -- I had finally regained air superiority over Germany. The Luftwaffe has 19 turbojet interceptor wings, 6 rocket interceptor wings, 6 fighter wings. Plus I have 10 provincial AA guns (with 1945 tech efficiency) and 1 radar station in each of my border provinces. I thought my homeland was safe.

But then this happened....

 

[DamoDamo]

Hey Gringo. Just a quick question.

I see that you have a 2 chains of divisions leading to your forces on the Eastern Front. I presume some of them are garrisons. Does doing this make an appreciable difference to your supply situation?

 

[Gringoesteban]

I see that you have a 2 chains of divisions leading to your forces on the Eastern Front. I presume some of them are garrisons. Does doing this make an appreciable difference to your supply situation?

Yes, it is for supply reasons. There are two major supply routes (lines of 50 infrastructure provinces) leading from Poland into the Russian heartland. The northern route runs through Minsk and Smolensk to Moscow and then becomes the transsiberian railroad, and the southern one runs through Kiev to Kharkov to Stalingrad and then on to Sverdlovsk. I always build each province in both supply lines up to 80 infrastructure (using 1.5(x) production speed, the double yellow arrows in the production screen). Otherwise, your ESE will drop to almost nothing as you move eastward. Numerous random events create partisan uprisings along these supply lines, and the purpose of the chains of divisions is to protect against these partisan attacks. I use some German garrison divisions, but mostly Romanian and Hungarian divisions, for this task.

 

[Gringoesteban]

can you post your current game build distribution? (i.e. how many garrisons, armored, interceptors you have)

I can't really answer this question accurately, because I have been disbanding depleted infantry divisions and their brigade attachments to get my manpower up. Also, I had a couple panzer divisions get shattered in the Caucasus and I lost at least one HQ division and 5+ infantry divisions east of Stalingrad. This happened when a low strength and low org unit retreats into a province and then is immediately attacked. A unit can only bounce back and forth so much until it disintegrates. So I am not exactly sure what I built, or what my peak strength was.

That being said, here is my best estimate of my peak strength (this includes units I started with, units I built, and units that arrived by event). Note that I always brigade 100% of my units.

Heer and Waffen SS
110 infantry divisions each with an attached artillery or anti-tank bgd
9 headquarters divisions each with an attached anti-aircraft brigade
11 armored divisions each with an attached heavy tank brigade
8 motorized infantry divisions with assault gun attachments (I built six and two arrived by event)
2 mechanized infantry with heavy tank or assault gun brigades (both arrived via event; I built zero)
10 garrison divisions (including the locked coastal/static divisions)
3 militia divisions (the three Luftwaffen Feld that arrive by event)

Luftwaffe
19 interceptor (started with 3, got 1 from Austria, got 1 by event, built 14)
6 multi-role fighter (built all six)
7 rocket interceptor (built six, one arrived via event)
8 CAS with escort bgd (built all eight)
12 TAC with escort bgd (started with eight, built four)

I think I had like 350(?) manpower in my MP pool when I launched Barbarossa in May 1941. I sometimes build 2 paratrooper divisions, 2 Ju-52 wings, and 3 marine divisions, but in this particular game I did not.


Regarding the Kriegsmarine, I built a lot of submarines and nine destroyers early in the Scenario to be ready for the Battle of the Atlantic. I built the rest of the ships after I had discovered the Ship Assembly Line technology (and the appropriate ship tech) so that my navy would be ready for Sealowe after Bitter Peace. This is a list of what I built and does not include ships that I started with or ones that arrived via event. I included the model number and tech year.
45 SSIV (1938)
9 DD IV (1938) and 28 DD V (1941)
6 BC V (1941)
4 CV V (1941)
1 CVL I (1936)
5 CVL III (1941)
17 TP

edit - i see you're still doing ok with your rares. how many synthetics did you build? and are hungary and romania providing you with enough oil to keep your planes flying or did you stock up before the war?

I built 6 synthetic oil plants and 6 synthetic materials plants. I kept the synthetic material slider (in the production screen) at zero until after I had discovered the 1943 synthetic material technology. Otherwise, I would have burned through my oil stocks quickly without producing enough rares. Regarding trades, IIRC, the change control for v1.07.3 has a bullet about how to acquire enough oil and rares to survive despite the -20% resource penalty that Germany receives in TRM.

 

[clist123abc]

Luftwaffe
19 interceptor (started with 3, got 1 from Austria, got 1 by event, built 14)
6 multi-role fighter (built all six)
7 rocket interceptor (built six, one arrived via event)
8 CAS with escort bgd (built all eight)
12 TAC with escort bgd (started with eight, built four)

how do you group your air force? pure stacks of 4 Tac's, Cas or do you mix in a fighter with each?

what is your order of battle regarding your land armies? do you promote anyone to FM and cram in the max amount of divisions they command or break it up into single divisions like panzergenerals?

 

[Gringoesteban]

There isn't really any science or factual basis for my grouping preferences, so I do not claim they are optimal, but since you asked, this is what I usually do:

air force stack grouping
4 TAC
4 CAS
3-4 Interceptors
3 Fighters
3 Rocket Interceptor (with the extra one by itself based in berlin)

Mixing fighters with TAC would reduce the group's maximum range so I doubt if it is a good idea. I remember reading a theory that including a figher in a group with 3 CAS would be a bad idea, because then the planes would stay in air combat longer and the CAS would take more damage. I have no idea if that is true or not.

Regarding land units, I put each HQ in a stack with five infantry divisions (for a total of six units) commanded by either an FM or General. The rest of the infantry divisions are in groups of 3.

I put motorized infantry in groups of 2 because I use them to plug holes or reinforce threatened sectors, or to follow behind panzer spearheads and hold territory (waiting for leg infantry to arrive) while the tanks continue the advance and try to close an encirclement. One motorized by itself is not very strong, so I use groups of 2. I usually keep panzers alone in single division groupings for maximum flexibility.

Regarding the navy, I put subs in groups of 3 for convoy raiding. I groups of 1 BC and 2 DD out on convoy raiding missions also. Sometimes I send out a BB (i.e. Bismark or Tirpitz) with 2 DD but usually I do not want to risk those battleships since I will need them for Sealowe. I use groups of 3 because three or more units in a sea area is enough to trigger a Battle of the Atlantic event and take resources from England, as well as give England a tiny dissent hit. You should be able to get multiple rear admirals up to level 6 by the time the USA forces you out of the Atlantic, so you will have good, experienced leaders ready to command your stacks for Sealowe, after Bitter Peace.

My two combat fleets for Sealowe each consist of:
2 CV V
1 CVL III
2 BB (one V and one III)
3 BC V
10 DD V

I have read conflicting opinions on whether one should mix aircraft carriers and BB's, but this mix usually works well enough for Sealowe, although trying to invade the USA gets pretty difficult.

 

[ljigsrb]

well in 1940 ive done see lion. USA DOW and right after that they start landing in balkans, england, scandinavia and france, and ive destroy some 100 USA div by may 1941, and they still have some 80 div left, i mean USA declare war on me they should get some dissent for losing over 1 million troops ask for white peace or something. now im defending beaches dont have enough troops for barbarossa. After see lion no way that barbarossa can be launched. bottom line capture of isles should make my life easier not harder. USA public opinion is not favored to lossing troops without gain.

 

[Gringoesteban]

well in 1940 ive done see lion..... After see lion no way that barbarossa can be launched.

I have the same problem, but in the opposite order. I finally finished a very bloody campaign on the Eastern Front and achieved Bitter Peace, but I had to disband so many divisions to recoup their manpower that now I barely have enough divisions to do Sealowe I doubt if I have enough military power to capture Suez then drive all the way into India after Sealowe.

USA DOW and right after that they start landing in balkans, england, scandinavia and france,.

Good. I coded the USA AI files so this to happen.

and ive destroy some 100 USA div by may 1941, and they still have some 80 div left, i mean USA declare war on me they should get some dissent for losing over 1 million troops ask for white peace or something. now im defending beaches dont have enough troops for barbarossa. After see lion no way that barbarossa can be launched. bottom line capture of isles should make my life easier not harder. USA public opinion is not favored to lossing troops without gain.

I can add a USA event that gives the USA 5 dissent if both London and Glasgow fall to the Germans, but the USA has so much IC that it probably will not make much difference.... Unfortunately, I do not know of a way to trigger an event based on casualties.

You would have had all those same problems starting in early 1942 after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, even if you did not do Sealowe. The USA will not be able to use UK airbases for its strategic bombing campaign, so that will make things much easier from 1943 onward. You can take military control of HUN and ROM and use their infantry as beach garrisons, with just a few German divisions in reserve in say London and Paris to use as a mobile response forces.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

well in 1940 ive done see lion. USA DOW and right after

I hope this is for game balance as I don't see much historical evidence to back up this event.

i mean USA declare war on me they should get some dissent for losing over 1 million troops ask for white peace or something. now im defending beaches dont have enough troops for barbarossa. After see lion no way that barbarossa can be launched. bottom line capture of isles should make my life easier not harder. USA public opinion is not favored to lossing troops without gain.

I completely agree but as Gringo says, it's hard to create such an event.

 

[unmerged(227225)]

Gringo,

Thanks for continuing to improve your mod. I recently finished a game (Bring 'em on) and was curious if you experienced higher numbers of UK landings in Norway? Perhaps this is a result of the lower number of African beaches (which I think is generally positive). I mention it because the UK probably squandered 9-12 divisions on these attacks, which, had they been sent to Casablanca or Suez or Balkans, would have created a lot more problems for me. Not sure if this is a general issue or unique, or if it has anything to do with TRM. Not a big deal but when the mod is so good it allows for such minor nitpicking. I guess you don't want to know exactly where the attacks will happen, but Norway seems an odd place for the AI to focus, at least after 40-41.

Also, if you want some unsolicited advice, you should be able to defeat USSR by '43, even without Panzergenerals heroics without cannabilizing any divisions (except for example disbanding garrisons and replacing them with the created Luftwaffe Feld divisions). I think the string of supply garrisons through the USSR that you have is probably not worth the cost in IC and manpower. You should be able to have 20 panzers, 10 mot, not sure how many infantry, 3 PAR/TRA, plus 6x4 INT, 6x4 FTR, 4x4 TAC, 2x4 CAS, 60-80 sub (depending on how many you lose/replace) by early '43, which should be enough to defend the skies over Germany plus maintain air superiority in the east, while doing pretty well in the Atlantic. You can defend French beaches with INF and GAR (ideally, be able to move 2 inf to each attacked province). I did use the Axis Minor armies in the east.

Also, this was the first game I played when JAP puppeted China. Did you change anything here or just luck? I don't think it made any difference for GER anyways.

Nice to see the AI using nukes though.

Finally, I like the new event ideas. I agree that in general events should give you a choice, but these did seem like "no-brainer" events for GER. Perhaps the USA could also get a new tech (to symbolize both sides of the trade) rather than GER getting a penalty.....

 

[ljigsrb]

last nite a good mad at usa because they have declare war on me after see lion, so ive launched surprise attack on USA and conquering entire USA but peace event doesnt fire up for the past 3 months

 

[unmerged(227225)]

last nite a good mad at usa because they have declare war on me after see lion, so ive launched surprise attack on USA and conquering entire USA but peace event doesnt fire up for the past 3 months
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/46/usasur.png/

It may have fired but the USA chose to fight (I think it's like a 50-50 chance). I went after the USA in one game and they chose to "fight to the death" or whatever. If this is the case, it would be quite annoying for your game I suspect. I went after the USA after USSR one time, and it was a long, anticlimactic, and boring way to finish the game. Now I just consider the game over when I have peace with the UK, plus control of Iceland and North Africa (in other words, USA cannot nuke Germany) and at least one nuke to simulate beginning of cold war.

 

[Gringoesteban]

last nite a good mad at usa because they have declare war on me after see lion, so ive launched surprise attack on USA and conquering entire USA but peace event doesnt fire up for the past 3 months

I did not change the USA surrender events for TRM, so they will be the same as vanilla AoD. I am not sure what triggers the USA to surrender in vanilla....

 

[Gringoesteban]

....curious if you experienced higher numbers of UK landings in Norway?....

Yeah, England, South Africa, and New Zealand seem to land a lot of divisions in Norway. I did not code the AI files to prioritize Norway, so I do not know why they are landing there. I have also seen Allied amphibious assaults on Murmansk and Archangelsk if the Germans hold those provinces, too. I suppose it's not a bad thing, since the Allies get so many bonuses. The Germans have to keep troops in Norway, and those troops will not be available on other fronts. On the other hand, for the Allies to have over a dozen divisions get encircled and slaughtered is not good. This gets into more of a hardcoding issue, though, with the AI not aggressively reinforcing its beachheads....

Also, if you want some unsolicited advice, you should be able to defeat USSR by '43

Wait, I have an excuse.... Usually I can get Bitter Peace in 1943, but my most recent game went really, really badly. Just as I was about to launch Barbarossa in summer 1941, England landed nine divisions in Norway. I had to pull some units from Poland to retake all the Norwegian provinces that I had lost. As a result, my northern pincer along the road to Minsk and Smolensk was understrength, and about 50 Red Army divisions escaped an encirclement before I could close it. Then, as if that was not bad enough, a year later in late spring 1942 as I was preparing to launch my summer offensive, I looked down and noticed that northern Italy (about 8 provinces!) had been conquered by the USA. I had to quickly shift all my armored forces south to save Italy and repel the Americans (I wiped out about 20 Allied divisions in the process). Without tanks, I made only minor gains in my summer 1942 eastern front offensive.

Also, this was the first game I played when JAP puppeted China. Did you change anything here or just luck?

I didn't change anything recently. Probably just luck. It happens maybe once in every four games or so. But the British usually hold Burma and then the USA begins hopping across the Pacific, so Japan is doomed either way.

Nice to see the AI using nukes though.

Unfortunately I've only seen it happen twice in many, many games.

 

[unmerged(227225)]

Wait, I have an excuse.... Usually I can get Bitter Peace in 1943, but my most recent game went really, really badly. Just as I was about to launch Barbarossa in summer 1941, England landed nine divisions in Norway. I had to pull some units from Poland to retake all the Norwegian provinces that I had lost.

I guess those Norwegian raids can have a strategic impact after all! Had they landed 9 divisions simultaneously, I would have been in trouble, but they landed at most 3 at one time, which I could either prevent from landing or destroy easily with local forces....I was somewhat concerned that you prioritized Norway over North Africa, but since you did not this is what I think is happening: Now that there are fewer beaches in Africa, I usually have at least 2 Italian divisions covering them, but only one German division for each Norwegian beach, though two more divisions not more than one province away. I suspect the AI sees the Norwegian beaches as the easier targets. No, I wouldn't change anything either. Once the US gets into North Africa they usually crush the Italians anyway, and you should have to be prepared to defend everywhere.

 

[Gringoesteban]

-

 

[unmerged(227225)]

A few very minor, mostly flavor event ideas.

1.) Force Yugoslavia to sign the Tripartite Pact (March 25, 1941) followed by Yugoslavian Coup (March 27). The coup event is already in vanilla, you would just have to update it to make it happen 100% of the time and to fire on the correct date (otherwise, you might not have time to redeploy for Barbarossa). If the player doesn't want to deal with this, they could just declare war before March 25 whenever they want.

2.) A "British reinforcements arrive" event when the Italians threaten El Alamein. This would be like the Soviet events and create maybe 8 British divisions in El Alamein. Although the fortified Suez effectively functions as a proxy to stall the Axis advance in North Africa, it might be nice to see the Italians have more difficulty in even getting there. I suspect these divisions will also be able to drive the Italians back before the Afrika Korps arrives. The player will probably be able to defeat them eventually, but will have to put some effort into trapping them, etc....

3.) Maybe an "icing on the cake" event on 30 Dec 1946--if you have met certain objectives--peace with USSR and UK, control of North Africa and maybe Iceland and nuclear wastebomb tech researched, you get option for peace with USA, beginning of cold war. Event wouldn't mean anything, but maybe a nice ceremonial touch....

Also, is it worth doing something to make Crete worth taking? I can't think of anything that would work easily as you get it for free after annexing Greece.....

Finally, thanks to those who have listed books on the period or linked to documentaries/lectures--these are excellent.

 

[vitality]

On the subject of Crete, I think getting it should be harder and keeping it should be rewarding somehow.

 

[Gringoesteban]

On the subject of Crete, I think getting it should be harder and keeping it should be rewarding somehow.

Option A
The Total Realism Project (TRP) Mod gives Crete 1 victory point so the Axis must conquer it before being able to annex Greece. I can think of four ways to conquer Crete if we make this change: 1) use paratrooper division and a Ju-52, or 2) build a troop transport ship and put it in the Med Sea (which would not be possible unless you owned a Med Sea port province) and use it to conduct an amphibious assault, or 3) temporarily assume military control of Italy and use its navy to do an amphibious assault, or 4) wait for the Italian AI to land on Crete.

-and / or-

Option B
Another way to make Crete valuable would be to increase its airbase from 2 to 10, its naval base from 2 to 10, and its infrastructure from 60 to 100. That way, it could be used as a major naval base and an important air base. The Allies could really hammer the Axis minor countries Romania, Hungary, and Bulgaria with strategic bombers based in Crete. Or the Axis could use bombers based in Crete for naval air patrols and also to bomb the Suez province if you decide to attack it.

-or-

Option C
No changes.

Preferences? Other ideas?

 

[Titan79]

I'd go for both Option A & Option B, in order to make the conquest of Crete mandatory but also to increase the province's importance for both Axis and Allies.