THIRD REICH AoD MOD

[Gringoesteban]

your mod RHAY = 850 mp no paratroopertech
AoD LKPW = 1800 mp + early paratrooper

WAD. The Devs added almost a million men to German's MP pool in the 106B release. I have no idea why. IIRC previously Germany had always started the 1936 Scenario with 850 MP. On the tech side, events will fire throughout TRM to give you some free blueprints. I did not change Germany's initial starting statistics in this TRM 0.90 release so the settings are the same as they were in 0.8X.

and in an very quick test over x-mas, as germany i have no usage (0.0) of consumer goods, but autocontroll spend 20.

That's strange. Could you explain a little more? I did not do anything in the Mod that would impact consumer good spending so maybe it is a bug in the AoD 1.06B1 release? If it continues to be an issue, please report it in the 106B1 thread in the tech support form.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?512362-106-Beta-1

 

[Endibear]

original from the ger.inc b1hotfix

#####################
# Country main data #
#####################

country =
{ tag = GER
peacetime_ic_mod = 0.9
capital = 300
manpower = 1800
transports = 160

 

[Gringoesteban]

original from the ger.inc b1hotfix

#####################
# Country main data #
#####################

country =
{ tag = GER
peacetime_ic_mod = 0.9
capital = 300
manpower = 1800

As I suspected. It looks like in the 106B release the Germans get a lot more MP. I guess that is so the AI does run out of manpower? In any event, GER will be way way way too powerful with 1800 MP. With those extra million guys I could conquer the whole world and still have men left over!

 

[Gringoesteban]

Good news -- the Allied amphibious invasion AI is working fantastic in version 0.9 on AoD 1.06B hotfix.


Here is an example from my current game: On 10 November 1942, the Allies made simultaneous amphibious attacks on Ghent, Rotterdam, and Dunkirk. The Allies used three (3) divisions in each of those three amphibious assaults. I had one Romanian or Hungarian infantry division in each of the three provinces, but they all lost their respectives battle and got pushed back. The Allies then reinforced the beachhead and captured about six French provinces before I could contain them and then push them back into the sea. Luckly at the time the landings occurred, I had all my armored units sitting in Berlin to upgrade and regain org during the Soviet winter. I just drove most of them across western Europe and attacked the Allies with nine fresh panzer divisions. It was Dunkirk all over again, except this time the Allies did not escape....


The very next day, on 11 November 1942, the Allies also made an amphibious assault on Kiel, also with three divisions. I thought they were probably using unescorted troop transport ships, so I sent a size 6 stack of subs to interdict them. Boy was I wrong! The naval task force assaulting Kiel had 29 ships -- 3 CV, 1 CVL, 7 BB/BC/CA, 15 screens, and 3 TP. That is almost the exact fleet/ship mix I use if I do amphibious landings myself. Needless to say, that one stack was more powerful than my entire Kriegsmarine so I left my precious surface ships safely in their Baltic Sea port. Anyway, I rushed land reinforcements to Kiel and repelled the attack.


Here is a screenshot of the situation about two weeks after the Allies landed. You can see that I have already lost control of the air, and it is not even 1943 yet....

 

[Titan79]

Here is a screenshot of the situation about two weeks after the Allies landed. You can see that I have already lost control of the air, and it is not even 1943 yet....

Very nice - I'd like to see some more screenshots from this game, maybe about the eastern front at a later stage (but not only).

Not to mention that I'd really love to see how it ends... never seen a player post screenshots of a losing game, as far as I remember (well, given that's the case, of course).

 

[Gringoesteban]

....I'd like to see some more screenshots from this game, maybe about the eastern front....

Your wish is my command: here is a screenshot of my frantic attempt to evacuate Moscow and avoid encirclement. Screenshot from 23 May 1943.

 

[Titan79]

Your wish is my command: here is a screenshot of my frantic attempt to evacuate Moscow and avoid encirclement. Screenshot from 23 May 1943.

Thank you! But don't challenge me: I might as well ask you for still more screenshots.

Impressive! So the Soviets were able to mount such an offensive aimed at encircling some 30 German divisions, more or less? Also,your MP situation is very depressing... were/are you playing this game with "Bring 'em on!" or without? And - is it maybe possible to see another couple of later screens e.g. showing a defense of central Europe (giving that the Soviets have managed to get that far)...? Thanks!

 

[Gringoesteban]

So the Soviets were able to mount such an offensive aimed at encircling some 30 German divisions, more or less?

Yes they were, believe it or not. It looks like I finally got the Soviet AI working correctly, in terms of build preferences, aggressiveness, deployment, and use of air force.

Also,your MP situation is very depressing...

Yeah, MP situation is critical. I had about 400 MP in my manpower pool when I started Barbarossa, but they are all dead and now I need even more reinforcements.

Maybe about 80(?) points of my MP shortfall may be related to changes introduced in 1.05 and 1.06 that I was not aware of. Specifically, now building infrastructure costs 1 MP rather than zero and convoy ships and escort ships cost relatively more MP, too. I will Mod this back to the original 1.04 settings in the next release. I do not understand why it was changed. The stats have been the same in HOI2, Doomsday, Armaggedon, and AoD 1.02, 1.03, and 1.04 but suddenly they got changed and this was not noted in any change control published by the devs, as far as I know. As we Americans like to say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." But regardless, 80MP more or less wouldn't make a damn bit of difference given the situation I find myself in right now.

were/are you playing this game with "Bring 'em on!" or without?

Yes, I was playing Bring Em On.


In the standard TRM, the Soviet Union gets +15% MP growth and a few other bonuses. The Soviets start the Scenario with 30 free locked garrison divisions in key provinces. Furthermore, 38 free guards divisions arrive on the appropriate date, and the Soviet AI also receives up to 27 more free divisions as the Wehrmacht approaches Moscow, Stalingrad, or Sverdlovsk (nine divisions appear by event to defend each province). When the Great Patriotic War event fires, SOV gets 1,000(?) MP added to its manpower pool and also gets a bunch of blueprints. And don't forget the changes to the map: provincial infrastructure is a lot lower so you will have supply problems and regain org more slowly; Moscow, Leningrad, Rostov, Sevastopol, and Stalingrad get land forts and AA guns; Sevastopol and Leningrad and Murmansk have impassible land links to other provinces across their respective seas and lakes so they remain in supply even if surrounded. And this is the STANDARD TRM, without Bring Em On....


I don't remember the exact figures, but Bring Em On gives the Soviets something like 100 more "free" divisions than they would otherwise receive, +5% IC, +5% MP, and +5% morale. I have been unable to beat this option, although Panzer Generals has done it. I think the only way to win is to not build historical; for example I would have to not build or research CAS or CAS air doctrines but instead focus specifically on Tactical Bombers. I can't imagine the German Military without Stukas or StuG III's, though, so I may continue to reseach and build a little of everything and get my butt kicked again.

 

[Amallric]

lol you're aiming for a realistic/challenging game and yet you're taking MC over Hungarians to garrison french coast with them. :rofl:

 

[Gringoesteban]

lol you're aiming for a realistic/challenging game and yet you're taking MC over Hungarians to garrison french coast with them. :rofl:

IRL the Germans used quite a few auxiliary units to garrison the French coast. Lots of volunteers from Ukraine, Russia, and the other occupied territories. Many of these men volunteered with the SS or Wehrmacht to fight Bolshevism, but Hitler did not want them on the eastern front so they got sent to the west. Although the Mod does have events to give 100 free MP to Germany for Hiwi's, and also Germany gets the free divisions 1st Ukrainian 14th SS Galician Infantry Division, ROMA Infantry Division, and 1st Cossack Cavalry Division, that does not even come close to the true numbers of men who volunteered to serve the Reich. Some sources cite up to 1 million foreign auxiliaries.

 

[Amallric]

I'm speaking about regular hungarian divisions and you must know as well that the HiWi's weren't frontline troops.

 

[Gringoesteban]

True, most HiWi's were used in support roles. But IIRC around 50,000 of them fought alongside the 6th Armee once they got surrounded in Stalingrad, and some HiWi's did fight in other units. Additionally, around 60,000(?) Cossacks fought on the German side, as did people from other Soviet ethnic minorities.


To your point, I do not know of any Hungarian divisions or Romanian divisions being deployed to the Atlantic Wall or France, but I have not researched that. So in that regard I suppose you are right that I am playing ahistorically....


After thinking about it, I guess that when I say that I am trying to create a historical Mod, I mean that I want to create a situation whereby the Player will face a similar challenge as did the German IRL. For example, a very powerful Soviet Union, an industrial powerhouse in the USA, and the difficulty of pulling off a successful SeaLowe, lack of rare materials, etc. (None of that is reflected in vanilla AoD). Then, with the stage set, it is up to the Player to try to win the game as best he can. In my case, that meant putting Axis minor divisions in France. Since the Germans lost WW2 in real life, then the Player will probably have to do some things differently/better if he actually wants to win. That being said, in my current game it looks like I will lose....

 

[Titan79]

Now that's great, Gringoesteban. I'm even more impressed by your mod.

I have another question: did you change something in order to reflect the great strategic importance of Stalingrad? Right now that town is a province like many others, but in real life being completely conquered by the Germans would have probably meant the end of oil shippings from Caucasus to northern provinces., the Volga being "closed". Maybe you could add a sort of off-map oil production penalty for the Soviets in case Germany achieves what she wasn't able to in 1942?

 

[Gringoesteban]

I have another question: did you change something in order to reflect the great strategic importance of Stalingrad? Right now that town is a province like many others, but in real life being completely conquered by the Germans would have probably meant the end of oil shippings from Caucasus to northern provinces., the Volga being "closed". Maybe you could add a sort of off-map oil production penalty for the Soviets in case Germany achieves what she wasn't able to in 1942?

That's an interesting idea. Right now, Baku has an impassible land link across the Caspian Sea so capturing Stalingrad (or even and the entire Volga basin down to the Caspian Sea) will not stop the flow of oil. I guess I need to rethink that. Perhaps an event for example if Soviets hold Baku but not Stalingrad, then SOV gets penalized with offmap oil production of -30 which represents about 3/4 of the Baku's output. Then another recurring event so that if the Soviets recapture Stalingrad and continue to hold Baku, then the penalty goes away.

 

[Titan79]

That's an interesting idea. Right now, Baku has an impassible land link across the Caspian Sea so capturing Stalingrad (or even and the entire Volga basin down to the Caspian Sea) will not stop the flow of oil. I guess I need to rethink that. Perhaps an event for example if Soviets hold Baku but not Stalingrad, then SOV gets penalized with offmap oil production of -30 which represents about 3/4 of the Baku's output. Then another recurring event so that if the Soviets recapture Stalingrad and continue to hold Baku, then the penalty goes away.

That sounds fair to me, and I like the recurring event idea to cancel the penalty if Stalingrad gets reconquered again.

 

[Amallric]

I have another question: did you change something in order to reflect the great strategic importance of Stalingrad? Right now that town is a province like many others, but in real life being completely conquered by the Germans would have probably meant the end of oil shippings from Caucasus to northern provinces., the Volga being "closed". Maybe you could add a sort of off-map oil production penalty for the Soviets in case Germany achieves what she wasn't able to in 1942?

Well the Germans DID completely conquer Stalingrad, in a strategic point of view at least. That didn't change anything. Given the shape the Stalingrad province has in the game I'd rather suggest to tie the shippings to the province that lies on the other side.

Also I think adding ports in Baku and Astrakhan and thereby make shippings possible with convoys would be much better.

 

[Titan79]

Well the Germans DID completely conquer Stalingrad, in a strategic point of view at least. That didn't change anything. Given the shape the Stalingrad province has in the game I'd rather suggest to tie the shippings to the province that lies on the other side.

They did conquer about 90% of it, but I wouldn't call it a "conquest" like that of many other cities. The city remained the theatre of heavy fightings all time through, so the Germans couldn't do what they would have liked to do in a "pacified" Stalingrad.

Also, I confirm my opinion that it should be Stalingrad the province which causes such penalties, not the one on the other bank of the Volga. Both for flavour and for historical accuracy, too.

 

[unmerged(52751)]

While on the subject of province blocks/strategic resources, how about an event pair for whether the province in Norway west of Kiruna is in German-friendly hands or not? As ore from the Swedish mines were sent by rail to the Norwegian coast and then to Germany. As long as Norway is not in the Allies then everything should be fine, but otherwise an event could either cancel all Swedish-German trade agreements (is this possible?) or apply a metal production penalty to Germany. The penalty should be lifted if the province is under German control or a puppet or neutral Norway.

And to spice things up, how about an event or AI invasion priority to get the UK to intervene in Norway prior to the German invasion?

 

[Gringoesteban]

While on the subject of province blocks/strategic resources, how about an event pair for whether the province in Norway west of Kiruna is in German-friendly hands or not? As ore from the Swedish mines were sent by rail to the Norwegian coast and then to Germany. As long as Norway is not in the Allies then everything should be fine, but otherwise an event could either cancel all Swedish-German trade agreements (is this possible?) or apply a metal production penalty to Germany. The penalty should be lifted if the province is under German control or a puppet or neutral Norway.

I could add an AI switch file to have SWE "embargo" GER if
(NOR is at war with GER)
-or-
(NOR does not exist and that specific province is not controlled by GER, except when either NOR is allied with GER or when NOR is a puppet of GER)

Then another recurring event would have the opposite trigger to remove the embargo.

And to spice things up, how about an event or AI invasion priority to get the UK to intervene in Norway prior to the German invasion?

I think that would be expecting too much of the AI. It was hard enough just getting it to the point it is now in TRM 0.90.... At least in 0.9 we have a situation where the western allies do lots of amphibious assaults on western and southern Europe, the SOV AI can properly defend itself and then counterattack, and believe it or not the USA AI actually invades mainland Japan sometimes.

 

[Titan79]

Again on Stalingrad/oil:

It should be very difficult for Germany to seize the Caucasus oil fields and thus to have them producing for the Reich, but I think it would be right to give her at least the chance to block Soviet oil production (partially - with the capture of Stalingrad, or totally - if cutting off the Caucasus from the rest of the USSR).

If Baku can pump out oil like there's no tomorrow even if the whole Volga basin is in German hands, well... this sounds a bit too harsh for Germany, IMHO.