Third Person... Dialogue and Hope!

[Ic1nix]

They probably had a motive for not including 3rd person. I don't know why, but a lot of RPGs lately are becoming 1st person solo... I love looking at my character from different angles. Anyways, I've signed the petition.

Not sure if this is their reasoning, but going with first person can definitely make physical world building vastly easier (especially interiors) because you don't have to worry about where high obstacles (like ceilings) are and how they work with the third person camera. Becomes especially annoying if your character builds have different heights to play with and if buildings have multiple levels connected via stairs etc. If you look at games that do have third person cameras, you'll probably notice that most of the horizontal slices of interiors in the game world have 20 foot or more ceilings, and the areas that don't often have horrible camera systems.

Again though, I would always prefer third person and a physically warped world over first person in my RPGs, but I do understand that it is a decision that needs to be made before the artists start to build the world.

 

[Kardo]

I reinstalled Bloodlines on the day I came across the announcement... it's all of $20 on Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2600/Vampire_The_Masquerade__Bloodlines/ (be sure to download and install the unofficial patch though, to play it on a contemporary computer: https://www.moddb.com/mods/vtmb-unofficial-patch/downloads)

Get it on GoG, the patch is already installed. The Plus patch isn't though.

 

[Asmith]

I really the do something or even patch it in I have motion sickness and I love the frost game but the only way I could play it was third person I waited for this since the first game and I will be sad if I can’t play it

 

[Midgar]

I wouldn't mind paying for it as DLC, if that is what it takes, if money is into question or a problem I would do it. As long as as the devs are willing to put it in.

 

[Magister Tremere]

Not sure if this is their reasoning, but going with first person can definitely make physical world building vastly easier (especially interiors) because you don't have to worry about where high obstacles (like ceilings) are and how they work with the third person camera. Becomes especially annoying if your character builds have different heights to play with and if buildings have multiple levels connected via stairs etc. If you look at games that do have third person cameras, you'll probably notice that most of the horizontal slices of interiors in the game world have 20 foot or more ceilings, and the areas that don't often have horrible camera systems.

Again though, I would always prefer third person and a physically warped world over first person in my RPGs, but I do understand that it is a decision that needs to be made before the artists start to build the world.

*wow* I appreciate your insight on this. Are you experienced in this?

 

[falconlord]

It's funny; I used to love first-person as a kid. Goldeneye, in particular, was a favourite.

Now, I prefer third. Funny how things change, huh?

 

[Magister Tremere]

I wouldn't mind paying for it as DLC, if that is what it takes, if money is into question or a problem I would do it. As long as as the devs are willing to put it in.

You're the second person to say this. I agree in the sense that the developers should be compensated for the work they do. Still, I'm inclined to think that it'll come via a patch. Either way, "get it done". *laughs*

 

[Magister Tremere]

It's funny; I used to love first-person as a kid. Goldeneye, in particular, was a favourite.

Now, I prefer third. Funny how things change, huh?

I hear that. Outside of my physical issues with it, I also think that it's far more immersive. I love seeing my character's movements and interaction with the world. I want to see them moving around an enemy... dropping into sneak, etc. I'm also with the school of thought that says, "What's the point of character customization if you can't ever/rarely see them?"

 

[Stiler]

I would really really love a third person view.

I understand that third person view takes more time/money to do, however a short term compromise I think could work.

Where you allow us to at least switch to third person while we are just exploring (walking/running) and then switch back to first person whenever the animation calls for it, be it combat/dialogue, etc.

Since the npc's use the same animation rigs as the player characters it shouldn't be a ton of extra work if the player characters already have these animations from npc's (which unless I'm wrong they should since the player will have to see npc's walking/running) then having a third person view for just walking/running should be a way to allow third person for a lot of the gameplay when we aren't talking or in combat.

I think that view would still help a lot of people while not being a huge toll on the developers to allow if they are already that far into the game.

I am one of the lucky ones that can play first person but prefer third person for rpgs. Mainly because I like to see my character in the world. One of my favorite things about rpgs is getting new loot (armor, clothing, etc) and seeing my character change and grow and look cool. As a vampire I want to look damn cool and it's hard to do that when you don't see yourself in the majority of the game. I also spend entirely too much time on character creation (hours) making my characters looks and deciding what I want to look like, it's one of my favorite things about rpgs w/ character creation and it all seems a bit wasted if we are going to spend like 90% of the game in first person and never seeing our characters or anything.

I'd love for the devs to allow even a simple form of third person if it's not too much trouble.

 

[Magister Tremere]

I would really really love a third person view.

I understand that third person view takes more time/money to do, however a short term compromise I think could work.

Where you allow us to at least switch to third person while we are just exploring (walking/running) and then switch back to first person whenever the animation calls for it, be it combat/dialogue, etc.

Since the npc's use the same animation rigs as the player characters it shouldn't be a ton of extra work if the player characters already have these animations from npc's (which unless I'm wrong they should since the player will have to see npc's walking/running) then having a third person view for just walking/running should be a way to allow third person for a lot of the gameplay when we aren't talking or in combat.

I think that view would still help a lot of people while not being a huge toll on the developers to allow if they are already that far into the game.

I am one of the lucky ones that can play first person but prefer third person for rpgs. Mainly because I like to see my character in the world. One of my favorite things about rpgs is getting new loot (armor, clothing, etc) and seeing my character change and grow and look cool. As a vampire I want to look damn cool and it's hard to do that when you don't see yourself in the majority of the game. I also spend entirely too much time on character creation (hours) making my characters looks and deciding what I want to look like, it's one of my favorite things about rpgs w/ character creation and it all seems a bit wasted if we are going to spend like 90% of the game in first person and never seeing our characters or anything.

I'd love for the devs to allow even a simple form of third person if it's not too much trouble.

In the first game, you had the choice to play from either perspective, but all conversations were in first-person, which made sense to me. Part of the reason why I don't like first-person combat (except for shooting and outside my issues with it) is that it's hard (for me) to judge movement. I've had a lot of instances where I was trying to dodge or find cover and found myself unable to move because there was some obstacle blocking my movement that I couldn't see until/unless I looked. That was aggravating AF... Especially when it results in a character getting killed. That's just not worth the headache... Literally and figuratively.

 

[Midgar]

You're the second person to say this. I agree in the sense that the developers should be compensated for the work they do. Still, I'm inclined to think that it'll come via a patch. Either way, "get it done". *laughs*

Yeah, if they come out and say we can do it as DLC to cover the cost. I wouldn't mind, I mean like I said before I waited 15 years for a sequel to this game, and it's heartbreaking to hear they wont include a way to play the game fully in 3rd person. Vampire the Masquerade is entirely built around choices, even in the PnP all revolves around your choices, I'm not sure why they would force us into playing 1st person only.

Not sure if this is their reasoning, but going with first person can definitely make physical world building vastly easier (especially interiors) because you don't have to worry about where high obstacles (like ceilings) are and how they work with the third person camera. Becomes especially annoying if your character builds have different heights to play with and if buildings have multiple levels connected via stairs etc. If you look at games that do have third person cameras, you'll probably notice that most of the horizontal slices of interiors in the game world have 20 foot or more ceilings, and the areas that don't often have horrible camera systems.

Again though, I would always prefer third person and a physically warped world over first person in my RPGs, but I do understand that it is a decision that needs to be made before the artists start to build the world.

I don't think there's a lot of reasoning, and I've said this before. But I think it all comes down to the developers experience. They've only made 2 games, Chivalry Medieval Warfare and Blacklight Retribution, both 1st person titles.

So I think they just decided to stay within their comfort zone.

 

[Magister Tremere]

Yeah, if they come out and say we can do it as DLC to cover the cost. I wouldn't mind, I mean like I said before I waited 15 years for a sequel to this game, and it's heartbreaking to hear they wont include a way to play the game fully in 3rd person. Vampire the Masquerade is entirely built around choices, even in the PnP all revolves around your choices, I'm not sure why they would force us into playing 1st person only.



I don't think there's a lot of reasoning, and I've said this before. But I think it all comes down to the developers experience. They've only made 2 games, Chivalry Medieval Warfare and Blacklight Retribution, both 1st person titles.

So I think they just decided to stay within their comfort zone.

If I'm being honest, I felt ill-at-ease when I learned a bit more about Hardsuit Labs taking the lead on this because of the points you raised... Amongst other peripheral issues. This leads me to think that adding the third-person perspective may have to be "outsourced".

 

[prithupaul]

Signed.

Doesn't Chivalry have a third person option as well? I do wish they are honest about their reason for first person instead of using the poorly thought out and factually incorrect "first person because immersion" argument.

 

[Magister Tremere]

Signed.

It is pretty clear why they have gone with first person looking at the points here. I wish they were honest about it instead of using the poorly thought out and factually incorrect "first person because immersion" argument.

I regret that I can't agree with your statement more!
It's like the old meme telling us that if you repeat something enough, it will eventually become truth. The thing is that the only place it remains true is in the minds of those who repeat it. We as consumers and fans need to vote accordingly. Not agreeing with a games direction doesn't mean that we're against progress or variations. All we'd be saying is, "Don't try and sell us on something that we know to be factually inaccurate." First-person may be good for some, but just like third-person, it isn't good for all.

P.S. Thanks for signing the petition!​

 

[prithupaul]

I regret that I can't agree with your statement more!
It's like the old meme telling us that if you repeat something enough, it will eventually become truth. The thing is that the only place it remains true is in the minds of those who repeat it. We as consumers and fans need to vote accordingly. Not agreeing with a games direction doesn't mean that we're against progress or variations. All we'd be saying is, "Don't try and sell us on something that we know to be factually inaccurate." First-person may be good for some, but just like third-person, it isn't good for all.

P.S. Thanks for signing the petition!​

Indeed. Like I said in the other third person thread. I am fine with first person, as long as there is an option for third person as well. I have no interest in preventing others from enjoying what they prefer, but it seems others want to prevent us from doing the same.

 

[Magister Tremere]

I don't want to sound like an ingrate. We should be thankful that Hardsuit Labs' enthusiasm made it possible for Paradox Interactive to sign off on the reemergence of Vampire the Masquerade - Bloodlines. We've bathed in uncertainty for a long time and now that the game is here, we just want justice to be done to it. Especially given the raw-deal it got with it's first launch. If you're a fan of the game, how could want anything less? How could you not want every person on the planet to know why you feel about this game as you do?​

 

[Magister Tremere]

Indeed. Like I said in the other third person thread. I am fine with first person, as long as there is an option for third person as well. I have no interest in preventing others from enjoying what they prefer, but it seems others want to prevent us from doing the same.

*nods in wholehearted agreement"​

 

[Dmitrius]

At first I was 100 percent against this, for reasons that aren't important.

However, after learning a little about certain disabilities I understand.

The problem as I see it, and this is based on what little the trailer revealed, the game seems to be going for a claustrophic tight level design which I've only ever seen in first person games. It might be too much too late to get working 3rd person at a quality level people would expect.

That being said, it would be nice if they could do what they can to accommodate those for whom the game will be unplayable in first person. As someone said, take solace in the inevitable mod.

 

[Magister Tremere]

At first I was 100 percent against this, for reasons that aren't important.

However, after learning a little about certain disabilities I understand.

The problem as I see it, and this is based on what little the trailer revealed, the game seems to be going for a claustrophic tight level design which I've only ever seen in first person games. It might be too much too late to get working 3rd person at a quality level people would expect.

That being said, it would be nice if they could do what they can to accommodate those for whom the game will be unplayable in first person. As someone said, take solace in the inevitable mod.

Thanks for your insight and more importantly for researching the subject. It's really not something we're making up. All we're asking for is the chance to enjoy the game like everyone else... In a manner of speaking. Nothing more... Nothing less.

 

[NikoNiko]

I mentioned the issue of motion sickness (or Kinetosis, as I learned today) in the petition last weekend. I might even have been the first to mention it there, but no matter: I am at the same time relieved and sad to read that I'm apparently not the only one with this issue who would love to play Bloodlines 2.
I'm personally rather pessimistic about the chances of a proper 3rd person mode being implemented at release or a later time. But I at least would hope that developers take note of the issue and take it into consideration. In recent years more and more RPGs have become first person only or make it rather clear that first person is the way you're supposed to play. I hope this trend can be reversed at some point.