Thinking about checking out TRP -- naval questions

[unmerged(17972)]

I've been thinking about checking out TRP -- the AI changes sound great.

One question, though... from reading here and at the TRP site, I'm gathering that Naval models and build times are very CORE-like (or CORE modeling is very TRP-like...whatever)?

Unfortunately, this is the one thing that I really didn't like about CORE. I understand that the intention was probably to prevent an ahistorical spamming of CVs by Germany in the late '30s -- but the problem here now is that it's virtually impossible to launch a vessel from one class before you have to be started building another, which doesn't make a lot of sense. Playing CORE -- I find that I have 4 -- sometimes more -- different classes of the same ship building at the same time.

If one were to copy the file (forget the name, but I'm sure I could find it) that dictates build times from -- or just modify the build times -- would this cause substantial AI issues (or worse)? I'm guessing the improved TRP AI -- if I'm right about TRP being CORE like in it's ship build time -- is configured to work with the longer build times, so changing IC cost/times would likely cause unwanted weirdness.

 

[Lothos]

Actually we put the build times based on historical build times and it had nothing to do with balancing reasons.

Since TRP inception I have always modded with the philosophy that if you duplicate historical reasons you will get a historical outcome. By making ship build times historically correct it is a side effect the issues you are describing.

 

[unmerged(17972)]

Actually we put the build times based on historical build times and it had nothing to do with balancing reasons.

Since TRP inception I have always modded with the philosophy that if you duplicate historical reasons you will get a historical outcome. By making ship build times historically correct it is a side effect the issues you are describing.

Ok - I guess that makes sense... though, I guess maybe it's my not understanding of the particulars of design, laying the keel, and launching, and then commissioning. It just seems like I'm paying 'double' -- i.e. once for the research, then again with research as part of the build.... or maybe that the shakedown and such is being included as part of the 'build time'? I would think that would be more akin to a ship being launched, then needing to sit in port for a while to build full org.

Maybe there could be a massive bonus allocated once you've commissioned the first ship in a given class - allowing others of the same class to be built cheaper?

I know this is a CORE example, not a TRP example -- but bear with me since it sounds like we're talking about a similar IC allcoation.

I'm in early 1944 -- playing as Germany. I'm actually a little ahead tech-wise (i've already researched '44 shipbuilding). Yet -- a post-treaty CV (I think this would roughly be the USA Yorktown class type model, right?) still costs 790 days. Add the fairly measurably higher IC cost (7 vs. I think 4-5?) -- and it's just really tough to get a ship launched before it becomes obsolete... though hey, one could certainly argue that WWII navies faced the exact same problem - 2 of the 6 Iowa's were never completed, and the Montana's never even got started.

So -- I can certainly appreciate the thinking... Maybe this just goes back to limitations of the industrial engine of HOI2 -- you have generic IC, not unit-type specific IC (in other words... it's not other ships that bump the navy off the build priority queue -- it's tanks, planes, infantry, etc). In reality -- it wasn't the need to build more planes or tanks that bumped the last 2 Iowas and cancelled the Montanas - it was the dominance of CVs. Ford didn't need to worry itself with CVs, BBs, etc -- and Newport didn't worry itself with tanks.

I'm probably a bit odd in that the naval aspect of HOI is my favorite aspect -- all land battles are just precursors or conflict resolution to naval battles for me... and I pretty much ignore all but the minimum of an airforce.

I did love the additional ship types in CORE -- but just got frustrated with build times and little way to shorten them [edit: little way besides modding files... referring here to a big bump in build time reduction, ala vanilla assembly line shipbuilding). I can certainly understand - with all the care and time that went into what sounds like a truly phenomenal mod - not wanting to answer this question... But I still have to repeat the question:

Would it really muck things up if I slashed build times? I guess I would readily admit that yes, what I'm looking for an HOI experience with a large number of Jutlands (which yes, isn't very historical) - and to do that, I want to see lots and lots of big fleets cruising the high seas looking for trouble.

 

[Minodrin]

Well, it's your game.

 

[unmerged(17972)]

Well, it's your game.

Sorry - should have been more clear...

I guess what I'm asking comes more from not understanding how the AI build priorities and such works.

In other words -- if I were to play TRP with sliced naval build times, would I end up 'hurting' the AI's ability to wage war? In other words - with lower total IC costs (days + IC), I would obviously be able to build more ships... Would the same apply to AI, or, is going to calculate what to build based on the original costs?

I'm not looking to pull one over on the AI - like I said, I want a whole bunch of Jutlands, which means I'd want to the AI to be pumping out ships, too!

 

[Lothos]

you would be giving the Axis an advantage they should not have and the Americans an advantage they should not have as well.