Things that Never Happen in HoI4 (But did so in history)

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Fishman786

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Something that always happens but which really shouldn't is British intervention in Yugoslavia. The game is designed to represent Yugoslavia's troubled task of balancing its independence against the reality of German hegemony, but there's a mistake somewhere along the line which causes the UK to spontaneously attack Yugoslavia without warning or provocation, driving it right into the hands of the Axis anyway. Unless the Axis attack Yugoslavia first (for instance Italy taking claimed territory or Germany going for Slovenia) Britain will always attack without fail.
 

Tarnoyan Warrior

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I think one thing that's really missing is the psuedo french civil war. The game currently shows the free french as immediately receiving all french overseas territories. This is simply not true. Not only did vichy france inherit syria, lebanon, north africa, corsica, west africa and a few other colonies, but they also had all of their colonial garrisons and the troops garrisoning those areas. The only significant territories to go over to the free french was equatorial africa, as well as their western and most of their pacific territories. I think that including this could really make the campaign in africa more interesting and it is an oversight in general
 

Daelyn75

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I think a solution to this would be if the game used strategic reserves. Now you put all your units on the front and if the line breaks, all you can hope is that whatever garrisons you have spread across your territory gets there in time and is enough to plug the hole. Sure, you CAN put units behind the lines, but they won't dig in or get planning bonus because the game doesn't recognize what you are doing.

Maybe in the future with some additions to the CoC, you can mark one of the armies in your army-group as reserves and draw a line where they will dig in behind the front. They will get dig-in bonus but no planning bonus, with the logic that you cannot predict where the enemy will break through your lines. When one army is weakened or needs to recover, you can swap which army is in reserve to get fresh men to the front.

A solution to the Germans killing the front and then running all the way to a Soviet Surrender? Yes, a well done system of reserves is quite badly needed in this game. None of the previous HOI games had it either. It would definitely better simulate how the Soviets were able to keep churning out divisions. As it is now, I think you would just be fortunate to half way keep up with the losses you suffer. But then again there is no in game massive surplus of tanks and aircraft like they historically had by 1941. They had 18 thousand tanks, and 7 thousand aircraft. I am sure they would have had large surplus of old rifles to go around as well by the time the game starts in 1936, but the starting equipment is nothing compared to its historical number. With a reserve system and the historical equipment number, the Soviets would have much more staying power which was how they historically were.

Also the dig in bonus behind enemy lines is another thing missing. It would help to set up much more defensive positions that would make it a challenge for the Germans to overcome, so that is quite badly needed as well.

On the Great Purge the current 'Lessons of War' focus should begin the recovery. Before the USSR had been humiliated by the finnish defenders no one dared to question the validity of the Purges and when the leadership including Stalin finally did so it was a slow process to fix it. The full scope on just how devastating it had been did not show until Operation Barbarossa and only after having suffered catastrophic defeats during the summer and early autumn of 1941 Stalin began ordering the NKVD to reinstate some of the officers (Rokossovsky is probably the most famous example) that had been detained on false charges.

I think one idea could be to tie the 'recovery rate' from the Purge to military losses/loss of land. The logic behind this is that if the USSR had managed to halt the Germans early on there wouldn´t have been such need for army reforms and Stalin and his cronies would have insisted on keeping some of the inefficient systems in place for longer. If things play out like they did historically they won´t have any choice other then letting the competent people like Zhukov make the reforms they think is needed.

On the Soviet-German war in general the biggest issue have always been that the Soviet echelon system have never been represented. The closest thing I have seen is the Operation Barbarossa scenario from HoI2 where the Soviets get free armies 'activated' the further the Germans get into their country, this would obviously not be a good thing for multiplayer but for AI USSR it could certainly help recreating the historical situation where the initial '1941 Red Army' was all but destroyed and still the Soviets had more Divisions in 1942 then they did when the conflict began.
If they could tie it in to losses then it would have to be extreme losses. I believe the entire original number of the Red Army was destroyed in Barbarossa, but they kept on putting out new divisions to compensate. That is some 5 million just in 1941. They also launched ridiculous and costly attacks even in the spring of 1943, so they hadn't quite gotten it all down until the battle of Kursk in July of 1943. The purge could happen by losses, or knowing PI, they would just implement it as a time period of being at war with Germany and or Japan.

I would actually like to see a mix of both.

I think one thing that's really missing is the psuedo french civil war. The game currently shows the free french as immediately receiving all french overseas territories. This is simply not true. Not only did vichy france inherit syria, lebanon, north africa, corsica, west africa and a few other colonies, but they also had all of their colonial garrisons and the troops garrisoning those areas. The only significant territories to go over to the free french was equatorial africa, as well as their western and most of their pacific territories. I think that including this could really make the campaign in africa more interesting and it is an oversight in general

Agreed. This needs to be in the game, as well as Vichy actually being a neutral puppet until the allies declare war and invade them.
 

Captured Joe

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Something that always happens but which really shouldn't is British intervention in Yugoslavia. The game is designed to represent Yugoslavia's troubled task of balancing its independence against the reality of German hegemony, but there's a mistake somewhere along the line which causes the UK to spontaneously attack Yugoslavia without warning or provocation, driving it right into the hands of the Axis anyway. Unless the Axis attack Yugoslavia first (for instance Italy taking claimed territory or Germany going for Slovenia) Britain will always attack without fail.
Yep, this is making a non-Axis Yugoslavia literally unplayable.:mad:
 

Pyro157

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I wanted to add also that there is not the war of Indochina which starts in 1946 opposing mainly the Viet Minh to France. It lacks the flight of the French government from Paris to Tours and finally from Tours to Bordeaux in 1940 as well as the scuttling of the French fleet. There is also the resignation of Hertzog in South Africa in 1940, which opposed entry into the war was outvoted and so Smuts becomes prime minister and brings the country to war. He also misses the repeated political opposition of the Americans to De Gaulle by preferring Darlan who dies assassinated which makes that the Americans suspect the British of having sponsored it.

I'd enjoy that too, TBH. The Indochina War can still fit in postwar.

In the event that China retakes Indochina from Japan, they should be hit by an event where the French demand Indochina back to them ASAP or they threaten to do something nasty, like an embargo or cutting off railway links in Indochina (which hurts China's supply). However, the USA won't be too happy with this, as they were really looking forward to setting up the Republic of Vietnam.
 
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A-150

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Something that always happens but which really shouldn't is British intervention in Yugoslavia. The game is designed to represent Yugoslavia's troubled task of balancing its independence against the reality of German hegemony, but there's a mistake somewhere along the line which causes the UK to spontaneously attack Yugoslavia without warning or provocation, driving it right into the hands of the Axis anyway. Unless the Axis attack Yugoslavia first (for instance Italy taking claimed territory or Germany going for Slovenia) Britain will always attack without fail.
I just had a game as communist Yugoslavia. The Soviets guaranteed my independence and the UK randomly attacked me. Then Hungary attacked me too so in 1940 it's Axis vs Allies vs Comintern... now I have somethings to add.

Things that never happened IRL:
  • UK going to war with the Soviets over Yugoslavia in 1940.
  • Germany going to war with the Soviets because of Hungarian claims on Yugoslavia in 1940.
 

Pyro157

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I just had a game as communist Yugoslavia. The Soviets guaranteed my independence and the UK randomly attacked me. Then Hungary attacked me too so in 1940 it's Axis vs Allies vs Comintern... now I have somethings to add.

Things that never happened IRL:
  • UK going to war with the Soviets over Yugoslavia in 1940.
  • Germany going to war with the Soviets because of Hungarian claims on Yugoslavia in 1940.

I'd like to see the Tito-Stalin split, honestly. The Pan-Slavic congress is a 1936 version, but it's more of a "we'll be fine on our own" rather than a "screw you" thing.
 
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Reinner

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I'd like to see the Tito-Stalin split, honestly. The Pan-Slavic congress is a 1936 version, but it's more of a "we'll be fine on our own" rather than a "screw you" thing.
It would be a great "what if" scenario in late game, especially since it almost sparked the WW3 in real life.

When Yugoslavia announced they no longer want to be part of Cominform in 48, Stalin was so pissed he put armies on every single Yugo neighbour country and started threatening with invasion. But the orders were clear that the country will not submit and if a single Soviet soldier will cross the border they will get shot. Not to mention Tito also had backing of Allies despite the fact that the country was a communist state, which is what earned him so much reputation not just within Yugoslavia, but across the world.
 

Fishman786

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In 1000+ hours, I have never seen successful invasion of Norway (except when using BICE mod).
With Vanilla+ I find it always happens. Not sure how though.
 

Pyro157

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It would be a great "what if" scenario in late game, especially since it almost sparked the WW3 in real life.

When Yugoslavia announced they no longer want to be part of Cominform in 48, Stalin was so pissed he put armies on every single Yugo neighbour country and started threatening with invasion. But the orders were clear that the country will not submit and if a single Soviet soldier will cross the border they will get shot. Not to mention Tito also had backing of Allies despite the fact that the country was a communist state, which is what earned him so much reputation not just within Yugoslavia, but across the world.

I think this would work with the decision mechanics in WtT, maybe in a future update.

If SFR Yugoslavia joins the Comintern, there'll be an event chain of some of the most important disagreements both leaders had. Effects are worsening relations, then PP gain debuffs, then a loss in stability, then both of them refuse to trade with each other.

The final event for Yugoslavia - where Stalin's assassins fail to kill Tito - is the last straw, and Yugoslavia can unlock a decision to leave the Comintern.

The result is that Yugoslavia can create the Non-Aligned Movement faction, special in that any ideology can join. They'll all gain the Neutrality national spirit on joining, if they haven't gotten it already, and almost never go to war afterwards. However, this also starts a border war with the Soviets and whatever Comintern neighbors Yugoslavia has.

Plus, Tito was possibly the closest historical example of an actual benevolent dictator, which is why I respect him. Authoritarian, sure, but he wasn't afraid to break the rules of communism for the sake of making his country happier and economically stronger - they were even socialist rather than communist at times. Most of his policies worked wonders for the Yugoslav nations and let them enjoy peace for decades.

Just for fun: here's the border war in a nutshell, courtesy of Punch magazine.
Screen Shot 2018-01-12 at 1.09.40 PM.png
 
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Captured Joe

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Plus, Tito was possibly the closest historical example of an actual benevolent dictator
BORIS III FANBOY SQUAD PRESENT

I admire Tito for managing to hold the Yugoslav mess together after what went down there during WW2, but I don't regard him as a very good person.
 

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BORIS III FANBOY SQUAD PRESENT

I admire Tito for managing to hold the Yugoslav mess together after what went down there during WW2, but I don't regard him as a very good person.

THE MICHAEL I APPRECIATION SOCIETY SALUTES YOU

I'd like to hear your perspective on him. As with all dictators, he is polarizing (although less so than say, CKS), so I am interested in seeing how both views go as a matter of historiography.
 

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My puppet Yugoslavia (as SU) actually did stop being my puppet and left the Comintern, but this happened in a sort of broken way. It went for the "Join the Allies" focus despite having joined the Axis previously. Focuses really break the game if a country loses before focuses are complete. I didn't do anything ahistorical myself (didn't DoW) but simply defeated Germany much faster than history. So my game then had the USA "take a stand against fascism" by declaring war against a non-fascist, post-capitulation Germany...
 

Daelyn75

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My puppet Yugoslavia (as SU) actually did stop being my puppet and left the Comintern, but this happened in a sort of broken way. It went for the "Join the Allies" focus despite having joined the Axis previously. Focuses really break the game if a country loses before focuses are complete. I didn't do anything ahistorical myself (didn't DoW) but simply defeated Germany much faster than history. So my game then had the USA "take a stand against fascism" by declaring war against a non-fascist, post-capitulation Germany...
Quite right I think. Focuses tend to mess up games. They should have been a condition on that focus and cancel it if it was no longer valid the way it was intended.

One thing I really want PDS to do is to make the AI Germany only declare war when it is feasible instead of declaring war on BENELUX and and going west while they are in the middle of fighting Poland. The AI should not be declaring any other wars until Poland is finished. But most of my games the German AI is at war with Norway, Denmark, BENELUX, and Poland and fighting on three fronts.
 
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Cheesecakeczar

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Will the AI ever annex a state from its future puppets in the peace deal? I let the AI handle the peace conference in a previous Soviet save game of mine and it just leaves Greater Hungary, Greater Italy, and Greater Germany intact. Then an event fires for it to give western Poland to Germany. Not sure if Vanilla+ mod has anything to do with it.
 

Captured Joe

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Will the AI ever annex a state from its future puppets in the peace deal? I let the AI handle the peace conference in a previous Soviet save game of mine and it just leaves Greater Hungary, Greater Italy, and Greater Germany intact. Then an event fires for it to give western Poland to Germany. Not sure if Vanilla+ mod has anything to do with it.
Happened in my last game as Hungary as well, but Western Germany absorbed the German Reich some time later. I don't use the Vanilla+ mod by the way.
 
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