Things that made the original Majesty great

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Hassat Hunter

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No, I still don't get it.
It costs 500. You'll get back the investment as soon as you saved 500 gold. And with 5% that is pretty darn fast. Besides that the Blacksmith does make more money than an Inn in the begin, because of all the new heroes (esp. Rogues and Warriors) buying new equipment.

The "emergency spell" is well paid back with the cost reduction on the temple in most cases (hell, like I said- lvl 1 to lvl 2 palace with Blacksmith saves you 3/4th of a healing spell compared to upgrading with none).

And even if you start with 10K (which I usually do, just more interesting) you can easily get an Elven Bungalow if you don't spend too much on the start on additional heroes (altough sometimes you do need them to survive ofcourse).
 

unmerged(80041)

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Hassat Hunter said:
No, I still don't get it.
It costs 500. You'll get back the investment as soon as you saved 500 gold. And with 5% that is pretty darn fast.
You get back the investment as soon as you have saved 500 gold. The amount of gold you have saved is equal to 5% of the total cost of the buildings that you have built since you finished the Blacksmith. 500 is 5% of 10000, so 10000 is the number that 500 is 5% of. You get back the Blacksmith investment as soon as the total cost of buildings that you have built since you finished the Blacksmith is equal to 10000; thus, you get back the investment once you have spent 10000 gold on buildings.

Is there still something you don't get?
 

Hassat Hunter

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That would only ring true if building costs were the only thing being reduced. Also upgrade costs are being taken into account. And with upgrading the palace is already 3000 involved... count in two marketplaces (1000 and 2000, plus 1000 for each upgrade) and you have your 10000 spendeture in no time.

Which I call "500 saved" (150 for the palace, 50 for each marketplace upgrade, 40 on the Warriors Guild etc.)
 

Alfryd

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Besides that the Blacksmith does make more money than an Inn in the begin, because of all the new heroes (esp. Rogues and Warriors) buying new equipment.
Much of, if not most, of the gold your heroes spend will have to come from you through flags and bounties, so again, you're back at square one.
The "emergency spell" is well paid back with the cost reduction...
A single Healing spell for 200 gold is equivalent to 4000 gold spent on construction. Do the math.
And even if you start with 10K (which I usually do, just more interesting) you can easily get an Elven Bungalow...
Yeah, but with 10K gold you may be forced to choose between that bungalow or an extra guardhouse or pair of heroes.

Also upgrade costs are being taken into account.
That's considered a form of construction. I should mention only a % of the gold you spend goes towards construction, there's also research, spells, and recruitment. You will probably be looking at starting gold of 20,000 or better before a blacksmith straight off is worth the investment.
...you have your 10000 spendeture in no time.
Yeah, but the 500 spent on that blacksmith, which will only just have made itself back at that point, could equally well be spent on other buildings which would give comparable returns over the same period of time and will keep generating more gold indefinitely, or on heroes or structures that will guard your cash flow less indirectly.
I'm not saying you shouldn't get a blacksmith, or even that you shouldn't get one reasonably early, but the direct economic benefits involved are negligible until rather later in the game.
 

Spiderman

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I have to agree with HH, but maybe that's because I play on 10K all of the time; every little bit of saving helps at that level, so I'll take 5% off anytime at that level.

And Grash, my challenge to myself is to see if my little settlement can survive against the big, bad monsters... that's "fun" for me :)
 

Alfryd

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I have to agree with HH, but maybe that's because I play on 10K all of the time; every little bit of saving helps at that level, so I'll take 5% off anytime at that level.
Spidey, whilst I have the utmost respect for your expertise and experience in the game, it is Mathematically Impossible for a blacksmith to save you money immediately on a budget of only 10,000 gold. If you have enough cash revenue afterward to splash out on extra construction, there's nothing to stop you getting a blacksmith then.

Sure, heroes may spend early cash back at the blacksmith, but they also spend cash at the marketplace and in tax at their guilds- and, really, in the early game, extra healing potions or a ring of protection will be more useful to them than a further point or two of damage or AC.

Anyways. I think this is wandering slightly off-topic.

What made Majesty great? Ant-farming. It was a game compelling enough that you'd keep on tweaking your settlement and watching over your heroes long after you'd won the game- all the more remarkable as it wasn't intended for that purpose, like Simcity, or Caesar 3.
 

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Here's where you're wrong; you don't need to spend 10000 on buildings to get even. You need to spend 9500, which would be 10k's worth if you didn't have a blacksmith. So if you build a blacksmith and after it's finished spend the rest of your gold on buildings, you'll get even. And since you'd also get some gold before all those buildings are finished, you can build more buildings with that gold and therefore make money in a short time. Granted, if you spend all that money on buildings, you'll lose the game; but I'm saying it's NOT mathematically impossible.

Also, if you build the blacksmith from the start, you're very likely to save money in the long run. But if you build it later, after you've built other stuff, you're unlikely to save money unless you take your time and build out of leisure.

And in any case, 500 out of 10000 is NOT a big deal for a building that helps both you and your heroes. Now, this is not the case in other games. For example, in Battle for Middle Earth, there's an upgrade that costs 1000 and makes buildings 10% cheaper, so you still need 10000 to break even. But the starting money is 4000 at MOST. And the upgrade doesn't do anything else. Now THERE, it doesn't make much sense to do it. But HERE, you're spending a measly 500 out of 10000 to build a building that will almost DEFINITELY save you money in the long run AND will help make your heroes stronger. Can you HONESTLY not find 500 for that? Do you really spend all of that 10000 in a few seconds? This isn't the Warrior's Guild, it's a building that builds in a very short time. And I'm only talking about it making buildings cheaper, but it also generates money on its own, so it's very smart to build. YES; a marketplace brings in more revenue in the long run, but no one's saying don't build a marketplace. Your peasants can build two buildings at once. And a guild or a guardhouse can wait a few seconds until one of those are done. Or if you think it can't, build either the blacksmith or the marketplace after you build a guild. The loss of twenty seconds of revenue won't kill you in the long run.
 

Alfryd

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You need to spend 9500, which would be 10k's worth if you didn't have a blacksmith.
I see your point. You'll have 10K's worth of buildings + a blacksmith, rather than merely 10K's worth of buildings. So, yeah, you'd get a free blacksmith.
And in any case, 500 out of 10000 is NOT a big deal for a building that helps both you and your heroes.
It won't help your heroes until you start spending cash on research and further upgrades, which is a considerable extra expense. Heroes can equally well spend their cash at the marketplace on items just as likely to save their lives, which you'll be researching in any case.
The blacksmith just isn't a large source of revenue, as some people are claiming, any more than the library is a large source of revenue. There are perfectly good reasons to get yourself a library and blacksmith that have nothing to do with cash income.
 

Alfryd

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Oh a thing that made Majesty great- Humour. The voicelines, a lot of the quest intros/outros, easter eggs, the occasional bizarreness of hero behaviour.
 

Spiderman

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Spidey, whilst I have the utmost respect for your expertise and experience in the game, it is Mathematically Impossible for a blacksmith to save you money immediately on a budget of only 10,000 gold.

Why thank you sir :)

I'm not saying it saves you money mathematically. But when you're scraping for gold at 10K, every little bit helps.

In other words, it's easier to come by 2850 to upgrade your Palace to level 2 instead of the full 3000 because you're busy spending gold other places (usually hiring at that point). You already have a Marketplace, that's a given, so heros are getting their Healing Potions and RoPs. Some may have enough cash to get the level 1 weapon at the Blacksmith, which is when it comes in handy also.

In other words, it's an additional taxable building AND an obstacle in the way (hopefully) to the Palace that has a decent amount of HPs to survive while other heros are rushing to defend. So while it may not give you back the money mathematically, there are other intangibles where it helps out.
 

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Alfryd said:
I see your point. You'll have 10K's worth of buildings + a blacksmith, rather than merely 10K's worth of buildings. So, yeah, you'd get a free blacksmith.

My point exactly.

Ah, I never said the heroes would benefit RIGHT AWAY. But, I think everyone can agree that sooner or later you WILL build a blacksmith. The sooner you build it, the more money you save in other buildings. Of course it's quite acceptable to build the marketplace and a guild or two before, but the quicker you build the blacksmith, the better.
 

Hassat Hunter

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Alfryd said:
Much of, if not most, of the gold your heroes spend will have to come from you through flags and bounties, so again, you're back at square one.
Better than them having it in their coffers and not doing anything with it. And since they use the already-taxed money from the guild first ;). How many times didn't you wish your 6000 goldhaving heroes to have something expensive to spend it on. Bazaar doesn't quite do it (especially since they need to make the additional miles to get a potion, that could be spended battling foes).

A single Healing spell for 200 gold is equivalent to 4000 gold spent on construction. Do the math.
Well... I think I did. Didn't I mentioned the palace upgrade would be 3000 and thus 3/4th of the healing spell? I thought I did...

Yeah, but with 10K gold you may be forced to choose between that bungalow or an extra guardhouse or pair of heroes.
Both extra cheap due to your blacksmith ;).

That's considered a form of construction. I should mention only a % of the gold you spend goes towards construction, there's also research, spells, and recruitment. You will probably be looking at starting gold of 20,000 or better before a blacksmith straight off is worth the investment.
My basic setup for 10K freeform is usually blacksmith+marketplace (with potions), rangers, build a guardhouse near the MP if a sewer happens to rise there and then to lvl 2, Inn and Elves. Savings with blacksmith on all that:
75+35+40+150+15+38
MP+RG+GH+Palace+Inn+Elves.
Total savings for just the begin: 353 gold; and more savings on it's way (think temple of Dauros, or Wizard Guild, and the second upgrade). Sure it isn't 500 yet, but it sure gets close. And above aforementioned help (distraction etc.) it also counts towards the fountain!

Getting a blacksmith later is fine, if it fits your strategy. But I personally wouldn't think it wise just to waste 150 gold on the palace upgrade alone. Sure; you get your 1 warrior less or so to fit the building in, but what structure so cheaply saves you that amount of money so fast in such short a time I ask you? :D

Now, a library... that is a whole different story. I usually only get that one when all my upgrades are already complete (sadly, because it really helps. Don't research anything but potions in "The mighty dragon" untill I fully upgraded that one ;)). Altough I tend to wait with the teleportation amulets untill it is lvl 2 atleast :)

I see your point. You'll have 10K's worth of buildings + a blacksmith, rather than merely 10K's worth of buildings. So, yeah, you'd get a free blacksmith.
The building costs 500; you usually get that money back within a few buildings (lvl1-lvl2 palace alone saves you 150 Gold, and ofcourse 50 per Marketplace upgrade). Basically it is a free building + additions, that saves money.
Hehe... :p
 
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unmerged(82479)

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The music.

Does someone mind posting some links to the files, so, that I could reminse?(sp)
I know it may be a pain to get them hosted, but, I would love to hear the tracks again. Any and all of them, I had downloaded the Demo to hopefully let it run in the background, and just listen to the music. But, no joy, the demo does not include music, maybe we could update the demo? I'd love to see a re-surrgance of the game just from a simple demo update, something new to put out to the world!
 

Alfryd

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How many times didn't you wish your 6000 goldhaving heroes to have something expensive to spend it on. Bazaar doesn't quite do it (especially since they need to make the additional miles to get a potion, that could be spended battling foes).
I'm not sure what you're actually saying here, but the bazaar was probably intorduced specifically to drain gold from high-level heroes faster than mere healing potions would. It's actually a sourc eof irritation for me, since low-level heroes who really should be spending their cash on items on give a long-term benefit (ring sof protection, weapon/armour upgrades,) instead blow their cash on regeneration or strength potions that give them almost no benefit.

But that's not the point. As I mentioned earlier, your heroes can equally well spend that cash at the marketplace on healing potions and rings of protection, which will likely benefit them more. The blacksmith can actually be a distraction from more important things for starting heroes.

What I really wish, actually, is that your rogues' guild could allow you a cut of the cash made by vice building whenever you use extortion. I mean, logically, they'd control brothel/casino revenues, right?
 

Hassat Hunter

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Does someone mind posting some links to the files, so, that I could reminse?(sp)
I know it may be a pain to get them hosted, but, I would love to hear the tracks again. Any and all of them, I had downloaded the Demo to hopefully let it run in the background, and just listen to the music. But, no joy, the demo does not include music, maybe we could update the demo? I'd love to see a re-surrgance of the game just from a simple demo update, something new to put out to the world!
Altough the original Majesty CD didn't had it; Majesty Gold had all the files in MP3 in the map of the original.

I'm not sure what you're actually saying here, but the bazaar was probably intorduced specifically to drain gold from high-level heroes faster than mere healing potions would
Indeed, but as I said (and you too!); it just doesn't cut it to draining of their gold, usefully...