Things revealed about 1.20 from the MP (Tributary system confirmed; can ask for monarch points!!!)

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bitmapmedivh

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I don't know how I feel about Dai Viet being able to just usurp the emperorship like that without owning any provinces in China Proper, regardless of the fact that winning confers claims on the region. The CB should have a requirement for owning X amount of provinces in the China Super-region, aswell as be atleast kingdom rank and tributary.
 
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There is also order barrage new option on the siege screen, it was shown very briefly during one siege during stream.
 
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Me_

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as far as I know even the Yuan and Ming dynasty reserved the five-clawed for the emperor only. Four-clawed dragons were for princes and other nobles.
Upon reading the Wikipedia it seems that you are right.
 

SolSys

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The new button on the war screen looks to be a new action [player-only mechanic] for great powers:
leader.png


Tributary subject interactions:
interaction.png


There is also order barrage new option on the siege screen, it was shown very briefly during one siege during stream.
Do you have a time approximation or at least on which war it was?
 
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I wonder if there's any downsides to ordering an artillery barrage, because otherwise I don't see why you wouldn't do it all the time to pound the fortress into rubble.
 

til_bardaga

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I don't know how I feel about Dai Viet being able to just usurp the emperorship like that without owning any provinces in China Proper, regardless of the fact that winning confers claims on the region. The CB should have a requirement for owning X amount of provinces in the China Super-region, aswell as be atleast kingdom rank and tributary.

I think it's rather accurate. When the Qing came in China they did not hold anything, but were rather called by some Ming generals (Beijing had been taken by a rebel). The abnility to usurp the emperorship should be linked to unrest, independent states within China and legitimacy.
 

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I wonder if there's any downsides to ordering an artillery barrage, because otherwise I don't see why you wouldn't do it all the time to pound the fortress into rubble.

It might make the attacker put their artillery in the front line which makes them vulnerable to a sally forth or to an army attacking, meaning artillery gets wiped out and player can no longer break through.

It would be nice if we could garrison an army into a fort as well. The cost would be attrition however, but the benefit would be a powerful sally forth at the right time.
 
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Interesting. I wonder if it will have high/medium mil cost and/or chance of removing/lowering fort level.
I think it should be mil cost---possibility of lowering fort levels would seem wrong with how you use artillery anyway and how you normally have breaches in the fort and the fort itself set on fire---both those things could just as well be represented as lowering fort level (or at least requiring repair). Speaking of repair then I'd like it if forts could have some kind of damage. They would never disappear, but could be pounded into a pile of rubble. Then depending on damage you'd need to invest a certain sum to get them back up and running again. Obviously your level of artillery (and the amount of it) should determine how much damage you could give a fort. For instance without artillery it should be impossible to make it into a pile of rubble.
 
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I don't know how I feel about Dai Viet being able to just usurp the emperorship like that without owning any provinces in China Proper, regardless of the fact that winning confers claims on the region. The CB should have a requirement for owning X amount of provinces in the China Super-region, aswell as be atleast kingdom rank and tributary.

They do neighbour China but it could be a lot of different things to get the CB.
 
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bitmapmedivh

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I think it's rather accurate. When the Qing came in China they did not hold anything, but were rather called by some Ming generals (Beijing had been taken by a rebel). The abnility to usurp the emperorship should be linked to unrest, independent states within China and legitimacy.
Yes and no. The Qing had taken the north east, including the Liaodong peninsula, unable to expand any further before they the general allowed them to pass through the Wall. Anyway, it's more to do with balance, imho. A middling nation shouldn't just be able to cheap-shot the Celestial Empire and claim the title with the incumbent emperor not really losing any land. A balance should be struck, requiring a challenging nation to own a certain number of provinces in China, or the incumbent emperor going below a certain threshold of some kind. It shouldn't be a cheap shot, but neither should it too restrictive. The Qing spent the next twenty+ years after seizing Beijing mopping up Ming loyalists. afterall.
 
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Yes and no. The Qing had taken the north east, including the Liaodong peninsula, unable to expand any further before they the general allowed them to pass through the Wall. Anyway, it's more to do with balance, imho. A middling nation shouldn't just be able to cheap-shot the Celestial Empire and claim the title with the incumbent emperor not really losing any land. A balance should be struck, requiring a challenging nation to own a certain number of provinces in China, or the incumbent emperor going below a certain threshold of some kind. It shouldn't be a cheap shot, but neither should it too restrictive. The Qing spent the next twenty+ years after seizing Beijing mopping up Ming loyalists. afterall.
Well you do have to fight one of the most powerful countries in the game.
 
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Well you do have to fight one of the most powerful countries in the game.
So? There were multiple times when there were contesting Emperors, most illustrative example being during Song, when there were 3 legitimate Emperors at the same time. Even after Jin took whole North China, Song was still respected as an Empire.

Not to mention that being an Emperor of China without owning anything in China is simply bollocks.
 
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I don't know how I feel about Dai Viet being able to just usurp the emperorship like that without owning any provinces in China Proper, regardless of the fact that winning confers claims on the region. The CB should have a requirement for owning X amount of provinces in the China Super-region, aswell as be atleast kingdom rank and tributary.

I have to agree with this. When the Mongols or the Manchu became emperor, they actually ruled (a lot of) the Chinese superregion. I think claiming emperorship should require controlling the current capital Beijing, or one of the older capitals such as Xian or Nanjing, and should turn the current Ming dynasty into a vassal of the new emperor. With some effort the vassal can be integrated, leading to the new emperor actually ruling China, or excessive rebels can lead to a seperate dynasty cropping up in vassal territory who are hellbent on claiming the mandate too.
 
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Warial

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I have to agree with this. When the Mongols or the Manchu became emperor, they actually ruled (a lot of) the Chinese superregion. I think claiming emperorship should require controlling the current capital Beijing, or one of the older capitals such as Xian or Nanjing, and should turn the current Ming dynasty into a vassal of the new emperor. With some effort the vassal can be integrated, leading to the new emperor actually ruling China, or excessive rebels can lead to a seperate dynasty cropping up in vassal territory who are hellbent on claiming the mandate too.
Why vassal? Qing continued to fight Ming for 20 years. Ming fought Yuan until they retreated behind Gobi. Yuan fought Song until they conquered them.
 
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Willem IV

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I would love to see a restriction of the need of owning a either a large portion of China itself or one of it's four ancient capitals
 
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kitemasaki

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I would love to see a restriction of the need of owning a either a large portion of China itself or one of it's four ancient capitals
This is something that should be 'duuuuuuhhhhhh' when the idea of taking the mandate is conceived. Without it, the new mechanic is just silly.

I'd say it is time to just let the Ottomans claim the HRE, the Iroquois can claim defender of Catholic faith when they convert to Buddhism and Gujarat can form Prussia. I mean, why not? Doesn't have to make sense! They already let you be "Emperor of China" without actually being China. :eyeroll:
 
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