Best quote of the day. Next we could have sailors visiting brothels when they get into foreign ports, and have a woman outside a door welcoming a sailor inside while mouthing the words, "Me love you long time."
"things I dislike" - post things about the previews you dislike here **READ OP EDIT**
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I think that gets at what bothers me about the pushups and jumping jacks. In HoI3, sprites only had a limited range of animations to depict basic activities, 'standing still', 'moving' or 'attacking.' Seemed perfectly reasonable. You start having them do things like calisthenics, and they start to resemble more and more little GI-Joe action figures, rather than what they're supposed to represent: large-scale military units.
You think thats ridiculous? In Basic Combat Training for the US Army they would make us do push up with not only our helmet but also our rucksack on and with our rifle layed over the top of our hands.. For those that don't know, a rucksack is a pack that lets us carry everything we need. And we had everything we needed on that day of marching when they made us do push-ups for screwing up which I think was that everyone was talking in formation. Do push ups like the sprites are doing is nice by comparison.
Also no need to worry about Grenades going off. They have three different types of safeties. The safety you just flick off, the pin which must be pulled (and not with your teeth!), and then the last safety which is the spoon. Go ahead and do push ups with grenades they won't go off untill that spoon is released enough to set it off.
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+1. See no problem with them.
I presume most of the time they will be training before you deploy anyway so you won't really see much of it.
I stand corrected. No slight intended. Still, I think my larger point stands, which is that the jumping jacks etc. interfere with the idea that the sprites are supposed to be abstract representations of military units. They look like toy soldiers, not military symbols. The effect is unintentionally risible, and it's hard to take seriously.
If you want to put it that way, you could also say the entire game looks like a cartoon. Why bother playing at all?
Non-issue.
Personally I don't mind the animations for training. To me they don't ruin anything but instead add to the game. I can see other armies now training and my own as well. I'll probably be training the crap out of every unit to max when given the chance. Unless I'm losing or need the new units immediately say because of a breakout in occupied France while playing as Germany, then even my new units in the middle of the war will get trained to maximum.
What other way do you propose to show they are training without come up with an entirely new sprites for a training animation? Shooting would look odd because it would look like they are fighting when they are not actually in combat or the combat sprite animation is broken. And push-ups and jumping jacks is easily distinguishable with sprites to those that they are in fact training compared to all of the other animations.
Thats not always the best solution to say to everything.
ON TOPIC
Well, I can see your point.
1) Don't zoom in on your frontline. Seriously, why would you look at your dudes in peacetime?
2) Let's say it IS modded out. How would you propose we distinguish training units from non-training units?
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One could say that, but that's not what I'm saying or arguing.
Yes, and the thought of dozens of little men doing jumping jacks on my computer screen isn't exactly something I'm looking forward to in HOI4.
I don't think it should be animated. What comes to mind is the sprites in Vicky II -- you could have a "T" for 'training' icon over sprites that are training. Not the most original idea, certainly, and I'm sure there are better, but seems a damn sight better than the idea of little jumping-jack soldiers crowding my screen...
Kinda late to the party here, but I don't understand the huge debate surrounding the use of sprites and why only people seem to be flipping out over their use in HoI. The same sprites are (sort of) being used in CKII, EUIV and Victoria II (as well as several over, non Paradox games), and yet only here to people seem to complain about immersion breaking sprites. Could someone please explain to me what the deal is anyway?
Also, since technically the NATO style unit counters didn't exist in WWII since, you know, NATO didn't exist yet, wouldn't it also be immersion breaking if NATO counters were used anyway?
Also, since technically the NATO style unit counters didn't exist in WWII since, you know, NATO didn't exist yet, wouldn't it also be immersion breaking if NATO counters were used anyway?
To sum up,
Am I opposed to sprites? No.
Do sprites doing calisthenics seem like a comic distraction that represents an error in judgment by the devs? Yes.
Even in the dev diary, the caption for the training sprites is "pushups make you strong!" Ha ha. I get it. Kind of funny, but not very. A joke that will get old fast as dozens of sprites do pushups and jumping jacks for hours of gameplay? Definitely.
Am I opposed to sprites? No.
Do sprites doing calisthenics seem like a comic distraction that represents an error in judgment by the devs? Yes.
Even in the dev diary, the caption for the training sprites is "pushups make you strong!" Ha ha. I get it. Kind of funny, but not very. A joke that will get old fast as dozens of sprites do pushups and jumping jacks for hours of gameplay? Definitely.
I don't see the big deal. They want a unquestionably recognizable set of animations for a unique state (training), and pushups and jumping-jacks do that.
Unless there are other animations which would be less "immersion-breaking" I don't see what the argument is. Icons are surely insufficient when you might have training units mixed in with other units. For example, we don't use icons for moving or attacking behavior. I'd argue that training is significant enough to warrant animation. That being the case, how else are we going to show soldiers training? Plus, there is the added bonus of being highly amusing.
I'm rather skeptical that the jumping-jacks will actually even take that many people out of the game anyway.
Unless there are other animations which would be less "immersion-breaking" I don't see what the argument is. Icons are surely insufficient when you might have training units mixed in with other units. For example, we don't use icons for moving or attacking behavior. I'd argue that training is significant enough to warrant animation. That being the case, how else are we going to show soldiers training? Plus, there is the added bonus of being highly amusing.
I'm rather skeptical that the jumping-jacks will actually even take that many people out of the game anyway.
I'm afraid this kind of thing just seems symptomatic of the malaise affecting the entire gaming industry. Everybody is looking to broaden appeal to chase sales. "If we do x maybe we will gets some more of the Total War players or if we do y maybe we will get some more of the Command and Conquer players". Companies do this rather than focusing on the unique selling points of their games and making them as good as possible in those areas. Are animated soldiers doing jumping jacks ridiculous in a 'serious' war game, of course they are, is Paradox actually trying to make a serious war game... now that is the interesting question.
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This is a line in the sand. Either Paradox goes with the people who agree with all that is right, true, holy and immersive or they go with the forces of darkness who are ruining all games everywhere (especially tic tac toe!). I think it's obvious to everyone which side is which. Everyone important anyway.
If Paradox doesn't do my preferred course I am boycotting all Paradox games.
If Paradox doesn't do my preferred course I am boycotting all Paradox games.
Also known as Capitalism? I'm not sure what you want, Paradox to avoid improving their sales?
This is irrelevant anyway, as I don't see how some sprite-based humour is "chasing sales".
I'm not arguing or implying anything of the kind. I don't think this constitutes a 'big deal.' I said up front that I think the new training / recruiting mechanic is a big improvement over HoI3. Toy soldiers doing jumping jacks just seems to me a misstep. The devs clearly think it's supposed to be at least partly a tongue-in-cheek visual gag ("pushups make you strong!"). My point is, they should just reconsider that -- the joke's not that funny, and it's not worth the visual distraction of dozens of jumping-jack soldiers crowding one's screen in order to symbolize 'units in training.'
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