They really need to add Mobilization to the game

[Zauberelefant]

Adding insult to injury: people doing the civilian service instead could opt for getting some 300 German Mark (150 euro) monthly on top if they ate at home.
It wasn't unusual to earn tips from patient transports as well.
Soldiers couldn't even loot or pillage.

Also, as civil servant you could Chose your workplace and get another 150 € in top if far enough from home!

 

[Fulmen]

Adding insult to injury: people doing the civilian service instead could opt for getting some 300 German Mark (150 euro) monthly on top if they ate at home.
It wasn't unusual to earn tips from patient transports as well.
Soldiers couldn't even loot or pillage.

Back in the army during conscription we got €5 per day for the first 6 months, then €8.50 for the next 3 months, and finally €11.90 for the final 3 months. I didn't mind though, I liked the army.

EDIT: They paid the money to us I think it was every two weeks. Also the state paid our rent back home for the duration of the service and fairly certain they covered the electric bill too, as well as other such costs.

Heck, there are instances where serving is financially profitable. You can get certain licenses for free that would cost, if memory serves, in the ballpark of €10,000 in civilian life. That'd be the CE heavy goods driver's license I'm thinking of now. Obviously provided that's something you want to do in your civilian life, of course.

Anyway, I'm getting a bit too off-topic here I reckon.

Mobilizations are extremely complicated and take a long time to complete.

Finland mobilised in 7 days 18.6.-25.6.1941, and this was a very large mobilisation (on Finland's scale).

The smaller mobilisation before the Winter War in October 1939 took 2 weeks.

The length of mobilisation really depends on a number of factors, something that I mentioned on page 1, but by no means does it have to take very long.

 

[Ketchup & friends]

Comparing it to Vic2 doesn’t really work because managing the civilian Economy is the main focus of Victoria but in the background in HoI games.

But we think HoI4 can and should have a system represents mobilisation properly. (There are many good ideas on how to do it in this thread).

Gameplay won’t become too complicated if these are implemented. There would be two kind of divisions (mobilised and reserve), but this is not something too complicated.

For gameplay purposes, the impact of having a fully mobilised army on the society and economy of a Nation can be represented by fiddling with the abstracted modifiers.

• Being mobilised in peacetime should have a negative impact on stability (possibly depending on ideology, with Democraties more affected than Fascists).
• Mobilising while not at war should be considered an aggressive act and raise WT and scare non-allied neighbours. Possibly even causing them to join a hostile faction.
• Obviously, mobilised units should consume much more fuel and supplies.

All these effects will mean that keeping an army mobilised in Peacetime would be extremely costly and mobilisation would only happen when a country is at war or preparing for war.

 

[seattle]

Comparing it to Vic2 doesn’t really work because managing the civilian Economy is the main focus of Victoria but in the background in HoI games.

But we think HoI4 can and should have a system represents mobilisation properly. (There are many good ideas on how to do it in this thread).

Gameplay won’t become too complicated if these are implemented. There would be two kind of divisions (mobilised and reserve), but this is not something too complicated.

For gameplay purposes, the impact of having a fully mobilised army on the society and economy of a Nation can be represented by fiddling with the abstracted modifiers.

• Being mobilised in peacetime should have a negative impact on stability (possibly depending on ideology, with Democraties more affected than Fascists).
• Mobilising while not at war should be considered an aggressive act and raise WT and scare non-allied neighbours. Possibly even causing them to join a hostile faction.
• Obviously, mobilised units should consume much more fuel and supplies.

All these effects will mean that keeping an army mobilised in Peacetime would be extremely costly and mobilisation would only happen when a country is at war or preparing for war.

Well, let's take the protagonist of WW2 and put yourself into the perspective of Hitler.
It was all about economy. The autarchy program implied that exports had to be slashed --> lack of dollars --> lack of financial means to stockpile oil and rare resources (Goering never managed to stockpile enough oil for that reason).
The MEFO bills were a workaround and by 1939 the economic situation was already dire enough to speed up the outbreak of WW2. Germany's "vampire economy" would have collapsed without the constant influx of pillaging conquered territories.

This is really missing in HoI4. As Germany the only incentive for Barbarossa is a hardcoded US and Soviet entry into the war in 1942. That's a lazy solution. In reality the US senate was against the war before Pearl Harbour. Germany itself was in a huge deficit of oil and completely dependant on Soviet trade. By the end of 1940 the Soviet demands kept increasing, including total domination of the Balkans. All because of the knowledge of the economic situation.
It was a war of economics and unfortunately the game doesn't give you that feeling at all.

 

[Neal Mac]

I see no value in this at all.
So instead of troops standing around and steadily being recruited, you would have bare bones standing army, and then click a mobilize button, political decision, or focus and they would spring forth? ok.... what an improvement to the game and so worth all the effort that should be going towards better, more pressing improvements.

 

[Riekopo]

Well, let's take the protagonist of WW2 and put yourself into the perspective of Hitler.
It was all about economy. The autarchy program implied that exports had to be slashed --> lack of dollars --> lack of financial means to stockpile oil and rare resources (Goering never managed to stockpile enough oil for that reason).
The MEFO bills were a workaround and by 1939 the economic situation was already dire enough to speed up the outbreak of WW2. Germany's "vampire economy" would have collapsed without the constant influx of pillaging conquered territories.

This is really missing in HoI4. As Germany the only incentive for Barbarossa is a hardcoded US and Soviet entry into the war in 1942. That's a lazy solution. In reality the US senate was against the war before Pearl Harbour. Germany itself was in a huge deficit of oil and completely dependant on Soviet trade. By the end of 1940 the Soviet demands kept increasing, including total domination of the Balkans. All because of the knowledge of the economic situation.
It was a war of economics and unfortunately the game doesn't give you that feeling at all.

I'd like to point out that currently the Axis countries are able to get Middle East oil. Which did not happen in reality because that oil was under French and British control I think.

 

[seattle]

I'd like to point out that currently the Axis countries are able to get Middle East oil. Which did not happen in reality because that oil was under French and British control I think.

That's still not fixed in vanilla? In the mods that I play (e.g. Total War) the oil has little UK flags next to them. Germany has a much bigger incentive to grab the Caucasus.

 

[Fulmen]

That's still not fixed in vanilla? In the mods that I play (e.g. Total War) the oil has little UK flags next to them. Germany has a much bigger incentive to grab the Caucasus.

From a coding perspective it's an extremely easy fix, but their track record has shown they very likely won't lift a finger on the issue until they make a DLC to cover that particular region of the world. It's likely going to stay like this in vanilla for many years to come, unless they do something with Operation Countenance in the Russian DLC, which might at least get us British oil in Persia.

 

[seattle]

From a coding perspective it's an extremely easy fix, but their track record has shown they very likely won't lift a finger on the issue until they make a DLC to cover that particular region of the world. It's likely going to stay like this in vanilla for many years to come, unless they do something with Operation Countenance in the Russian DLC, which might at least get us British oil in Persia.

Rather shocking that they didn't use the fuel DLC for it...
Why introduce fuel when the Axis has plenty access to it?
Lack of fuel historically:
- kept the Italian navy in port for the entire war
- forced Germany to de-motorize her army
- only gave Germany 2 months of offensive capability in Russia which effectively ended "Bewegungskrieg" and thus abandoned the German military doctrine...

And so on...

But back to the topic:
Why not simply use a national law for mobilization?
- demobilized
- partially mobilized
- fully mobilzed
Lower mobilization leads to negative combat modifiers.
Higher mobilization leads to negative economic modifiers and stability/war support.

That could also simulate Germany's partial demobilization from mid 1940 to early 1941 when the soldiers were sent back to the factories.

The outcome should be that it incentivizes people to only mobilize weeks before going to war.

Let's take the Soviets: mobilizing too early cripples your ecomony, mobilizing too late makes you vulnerable to the German invasion.

I'm talking about a new national law in addition to the current manpower mobilization.

 

[Ketchup & friends]

Well, let's take the protagonist of WW2 and put yourself into the perspective of Hitler.
It was all about economy. The autarchy program implied that exports had to be slashed --> lack of dollars --> lack of financial means to stockpile oil and rare resources (Goering never managed to stockpile enough oil for that reason).
The MEFO bills were a workaround and by 1939 the economic situation was already dire enough to speed up the outbreak of WW2. Germany's "vampire economy" would have collapsed without the constant influx of pillaging conquered territories.

This is really missing in HoI4. As Germany the only incentive for Barbarossa is a hardcoded US and Soviet entry into the war in 1942. That's a lazy solution. In reality the US senate was against the war before Pearl Harbour. Germany itself was in a huge deficit of oil and completely dependant on Soviet trade. By the end of 1940 the Soviet demands kept increasing, including total domination of the Balkans. All because of the knowledge of the economic situation.
It was a war of economics and unfortunately the game doesn't give you that feeling at all.

Economy in HoI ultimately serves one goal: raising and equipping the most powerful military.
It doesn’t depict the actual reasons, for wars (Unlike Vic2).

Foci OR national spirits (like the MEFO Bills) represents these things.

This is an extreme simplification but it’s good enough for a Wargame.