They need to make the most important change ever in the patch!
- Thread starter Chronicler
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I think the fact that you, for example, release Transylvania as Ottoman/Byz and they get all techs at ~3, when rest of the world is 35+ is more gamebreaking. Really.
Actually it includes what you're referring to. In 5.2 if a merchant republic or empire releases a former horde country as a vassal or forces their release in a peace deal that country will be created as a tribal despotism instead of a horde.
Ehh, but if I release as a feudal monarchy it would be a feudal monarchy? >_>. What are we discussing here.
I saw nothing of this in the logs I got.
In general, a released country gets the government type of the one that released it.
If that would not make sense (e.g. releasing country is a MR/Papacy/Empire) the country is released as its previous government type.
In 5.2 there is an additional rule that if the previous government is nomadic it will instead get tribal despotism as government.
(I would argue that this really should be extended to the MR/Empire as well; if an Empire/MR releases a former Empire/MR that country should also become a noble republic/kingdom instead.)
Papacy always releases as a theocracy. What are you talking about? You seem kind of confused =P.
Seems like the point you argued was what I argued. Or did you mean if one release a former MR like Venice?
The basic point is that what you asked for in the original post is how it works in the 5.2 beta; MR/Empires don't release horde vassals, they release tribals instead.
Forgot about the papacy special behavior.
Yes I was arguing that if the you release Venice it should also not become a MR; it should need to use the normal decision to become MR just as a released BYZ should not be an Empire until it meets the requirements to take the decision.
Well, from what I have seen this hasn't been changed. and I bet MR/Empire still release tribals as tribals when others don't.
And MRs don't release MRs, they can't do that. Same with empires. Don't know what you are talking about.
You are aware that you are arguing against a person who somethimes proves to know more about the game than developers? Anyway, it seems that this issue is fixed at least in a rudimentary version in the new beta, having tribal or nontribal vassals is pretty much the same thing, maybe tribals are even better since you can kill their rebels during the TSC and get a bonus to relations.
Plus they got forcelimits and manpower 20% + = spammier vassal
Yeah, but other nations still release better government forms. >_>.
So what? There is no real downside to tribal governments as vassals...
tribal government sucks in comparison to those other types? >_>
Except that it gets boni to the military stuff and that the other downsides (less magistrates and slider moves) are negligible for AI's anyway. The only exception would be if your vassal is something like 20 Provinces big, but honestly, thats your own fault.
Yes? But it's troops suck. So it would be bonus to suckiness.
Erm, no, troops are not determined by government form but by techgroup. Since no matter how the GH will probably be either Steppe Nomands-tech or Muslim tech it actually doesnt matter which government you have. For example even if you release the mamlucks as a feudal monarchy they will still have the same troops they had as a tribal monarchy.
Well, obviously I wasn't saying another government would give them modern elite units. I'm just saying I would rather they had other bonuses. For example more magistrates so they could build up their nations etc etc.
EDIT: Higher tech costs and shit cripples them anyhow. There are a lot of limitations to tribal governments.
So the game is 'clearly' broken because the mechanics in question does not work the way Chronicler thinks it should ... got it!
Well, if all the other governments can release vassals with their government type except merchant republic and empire obviously it's broken.
And I guess since shogunate couldn't be disbanded properly that isn't broken either? It's just not working as I think it should.
Look, it makes no sense to establish a feudal monarchy in steppe territory, so releasing nations of your own government type itself is not really balanced or historically plausible. And some questions: Should a merchant republic release an administrative or a noble republic in horde territory? Does an empire release a feudal, a despotic or even an administrative monarchy? You can argue for or against all those things and anyone would always complain. For me and probably 99% of the players its acceptable to release those nations as tribal and if its not okay for you: Deal with it, nobody cares (sorry for the rude speak but its probably a fact).