These new rebels are beating me down.

[Derek Pullem]

JohnMK - no one is really that beat up about the rebels. They will get beaten in the end. The thing that everyone is cheesed off with is that the CRT rules do not appear to work if the rebels are "equal" to the player. Now if there is a penalty when playing on V Hard or something fine but TELL US!

 

[unmerged(14597)]

The new rebels aren't that difficult. Attack them immediately while their morale is low, or tackle them defensively (hopefully taking advantage of terrain) when they move.

-stillzig

 

[unmerged(7580)]

Originally posted by stillzig
The new rebels aren't that difficult. Attack them immediately while their morale is low, or tackle them defensively (hopefully taking advantage of terrain) when they move.

-stillzig

Attacking them immediatly is not always an option.

The point is that I should not have to worry so much about how to beat rebels. They should be weaker than my forces, both moral and technology wise. Sometimes they should win, but it should be the exception and not the rule.

 

[unmerged(15881)]

Hmmmm...maybe rebels should be able to retreat and not "pillage" the province? That would better simulate their guerilla tactics? Make it harder to catch them but not as hard to destroy them? Their presence would raise the RR in the province they are in and the surrounding. And an entrance into a province would result in a revolt check.

 

[unmerged(15967)]

Originally posted by KlevesWarrior
Attacking them immediatly is not always an option.

The point is that I should not have to worry so much about how to beat rebels. They should be weaker than my forces, both moral and technology wise. Sometimes they should win, but it should be the exception and not the rule.

Do you think that is so?
That historically a monarch never had to really fear a rebellion?
I must say I don't aggree.
And I still think if anything rebels should have a morale bonus because they are more motivated. (a tech malus would be ok, though).

 

[unmerged(7580)]

Originally posted by Freiherr vStein
Do you think that is so?
That historically a monarch never had to really fear a rebellion?
I must say I don't aggree.
And I still think if anything rebels should have a morale bonus because they are more motivated. (a tech malus would be ok, though).

I'm not saying that rebellion was not a worry, I was refering to worrying about the terrain, etc. when fighting a rebel army. I should be able to trust that my 30,000 man army of veterans can beat a 4,000 peasant uprising.

Rebellion should be a problem, but when I commit the resources to crush that rebellion, it should be crushed. Rebels were usually not as well led/trained/armed as a professional army.

 

[Kaigon]

Originally posted by KlevesWarrior
I'm not saying that rebellion was not a worry, I was refering to worrying about the terrain, etc. when fighting a rebel army. I should be able to trust that my 30,000 man army of veterans can beat a 4,000 peasant uprising.

Who said that they were peasants, they might as well be german mercenaries...

 

[unmerged(7580)]

Originally posted by Kaigon
Who said that they were peasants, they might as well be german mercenaries...

Ok, lets assume that rolleyes: ), can 4,000 german mercenaries beat my 30k professional army?

How german mercenaries came to China in the 1400s is another story...

 

[unmerged(15967)]

Originally posted by KlevesWarrior
Ok, lets assume that rolleyes: ), can 4,000 german mercenaries beat my 30k professional army?

In favorable terrain and with a good deal of luck yes.

 

[unmerged(7580)]

Originally posted by Freiherr vStein
In favorable terrain and with a good deal of luck yes.

Maybe once. Twice? I doubt it. And each rebellion is like this. It seems to take a good deal of luck to beat the rebels the first time.

I'm not saying that I should beat the rebels every time, just that I should usually win. Rebels should be a problem, but right now I worry more about how I'm doing against the rebels than how I'm doing against an enemy because the rebels are stronger and require more resources. This should not be the case.

 

[Wulfram]

Originally posted by Kaigon
Who said that they were peasants, they might as well be german mercenaries...

The game itself. It says

"Our Marshall reports
A Revolt
My Lord the peasants in
MACEDONIA ARE REVOLTING!"

 

[unmerged(15967)]

Except in mountains or other unfavorable conditions I almost always beat the rebels with 2:1 or greater odds (that's what I usually use) and have a fair chance with equal sizes (sometimes I try that just before they finish a siege). I rarely even bother to set mainatance to full when I can catch them on plains. overall I pay a great deal less attention to revolt risk than I used to under the old system even if the income penality hurts, but then a lower income is more bearable than constant revolts during a war, as least as long as you have cash reserves.

If your experiences are so greatly different maybe you should try to isolate the problem. Are they more likely to be "too strong" at high tech levels or low? When you lead in land tech or when you are behind? Do other factors (appart form terrain and dp settings) have an influence? Maybe there is a bug somewhere in the tech allocation system and if you identify it Johan can solve the problem. I doubt that is the case, though. They really seem to be as strong as they should and not any stronger.

 

[unmerged(7580)]

Well, a lot of people seem to think that they are too strong. I think they should be toned down a bit. They should be a problem, but they should not be as much of a problem as they are currently.

 

[DGuller]

I think the present rebel system is mostly OK, maybe the rebels should be one CRT level behind, since they can't be equipped as well as regular army. As for morale, there is no reason why regular army should have it higher, after all they're sent to slaughter their own people. Rebellions SHOULD be trouble for you, not a nuisance.

 

[unmerged(15967)]

Are you saying that they are stronger than they are meant to be (i. e. bug) or that you think they should be made weaker than they are intended to be now?

I haven't seen any evidence for the former and strongly disagree with the latter.

 

[unmerged(7580)]

Originally posted by Freiherr vStein
Are you saying that they are stronger than they are meant to be (i. e. bug) or that you think they should be made weaker than they are intended to be now?

I haven't seen any evidence for the former and strongly disagree with the latter.

I think they should be made weaker.

In my current game as China (a country with lots of revolts so far) I have seen, many times (most of the time in fact), 3-5k rebels beating my much larger/better led professional forces. This is not right. I'm not saying make them so weak that they are not a problem, I'm just saying make them so they're beatable.

 

[Kaigon]

Originally posted by Wulfram
The game itself. It says

"Our Marshall reports
A Revolt
My Lord the peasants in
MACEDONIA ARE REVOLTING!"

Originally posted by artemis667
Well, if some noble in one of my provinces decides he's had enough and wants to raise an army against me, as far as I'm concerned from that point on he is a peasant

just because your messanger calls them peasants doesn't mean they are...

Here's Artemis667's post

 

[Old Joe]

Just for me, in 12apr patch rebels are set perfectly. I've already played almost 3 centuries with HAB, and must tell that it looks superpowered at first times, but when you deal with half a century dutch RR, its became easy crushing them again.

And besides, rr chance totally reworked as i experienced, even with >40 rr sometimes my holland stayed silently by months.

Once i had +20 war RR in all my austria, but through all years of this major war i can crush them, with troubles of course, but it was realistic for my police forces. Strange, and just magnificient(w/o sarcasm) thing happens after this victorious war, i began recieve rebels by 2-3 provinces every month very permanently, all my dutch nobles rebels take full control of holland, things went just intolerable for human player to watch of all this. And, in one month, after little lags, i had government collapse, and i even didnt mention to how it was PERFECTLY done by my revolters. That was so sweet that i even smile on all this reborned swarm of german minors and unfreezing all provinces from looting , instead to hammer my monitor with fist, as usually

 

[unmerged(15967)]

China has so many revolts that you will invariably often see the rebels beat high odds simply because you will have to fight them so much. China should have problems with all those rebels. And are you seriously arguing that you don't have a chance to beat armies that have no advantage over yours? That doesn't make sense.

 

[Dinsdale]

Originally posted by Freiherr vStein
China has so many revolts that you will invariably often see the rebels beat high odds simply because you will have to fight them so much.

That's backwards math. The more revolts, the larger sample, the fewer statistical anomalies should be present.

China's revolts should actually be indicative of how the rebels should perform.

I'm all for the game being harder, but at least make it appear as though it's still an historic game.