There's something funny about line of sight in this game
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Well, the why:
Mechs draw line of sight from their own head, but to multiple points on the target body. If most points are blocked, no los. If only some points are blocked, 'obstructed' attack penalty. If no points are blocked, full los. You can see how this can create asymmetric los.
Weapon shots are drawn from the weapon to the hit location, where los was from the head to some generalized points. That's why we get clipping problems.
Now, whether there is a better or preferred solution (within the limits of realistic game dev time and budget) is debatable and a matter of priorities and preference. Something will be lost in any trade-off.
Mechs draw line of sight from their own head, but to multiple points on the target body. If most points are blocked, no los. If only some points are blocked, 'obstructed' attack penalty. If no points are blocked, full los. You can see how this can create asymmetric los.
Weapon shots are drawn from the weapon to the hit location, where los was from the head to some generalized points. That's why we get clipping problems.
Now, whether there is a better or preferred solution (within the limits of realistic game dev time and budget) is debatable and a matter of priorities and preference. Something will be lost in any trade-off.
But then how does the guy on the ground see enough of me to fire, but I don't see enough of him?
Same thing has happened to me, he can shoot me but i cant shot him, especially annoying if its a bulwarked pilot being shot at. Game has some rough edges to be sure. Ive also noticed path finding is horrible.
Okay, hope this is clear enough. The green lines are your los, the black is the enemy los. For arguments' sake, lets say the los does Ray tracing to the head, left and right torso, and left and right thigh, so 5 points total. Let's guess that you need los to 3, maybe only 2 points to be able to shoot with ' obstructed' penalty.
Enemy can draw los to your head and both torsos, but as in my drawing, the los to legs hits the hill. It gets 3/5 los points so it can fire obstructed.
However, the lines from your head to the enemies' legs AND torsos are blocked by the ground, so you can only see 1/5 los points and cannot fire. Basically, you can only see their head sticking up over the hill. But since they are drawing their los only from their head, that's good enough for them.
One alternative would be to draw los from the weapons. The upside is you wouldn't get clipping problems (as much).
The downsides are:
You may still have asymmetrical los, though it would be rarer and more likely due to vertical obstructions like cliffs and buildings.
You may be obstructed for some weapons but not for others, which may cause confusion as to why or be a mess to show in the UI.
While it would improve the visual feedback, it would beg the question why the mech can't just shift its body or straighten its arms at shoulder level to get a better shot, which it could definitely do in the fiction.
You are drastically increasing the calculations needed for los, especially if you have to the into account facing and torso twisting changing possible weapon los.
It gives some mechs very subtle advantages/disadvantages depending on exactly where the hardpoints are and the shape of the arms.
The downsides are:
You may still have asymmetrical los, though it would be rarer and more likely due to vertical obstructions like cliffs and buildings.
You may be obstructed for some weapons but not for others, which may cause confusion as to why or be a mess to show in the UI.
While it would improve the visual feedback, it would beg the question why the mech can't just shift its body or straighten its arms at shoulder level to get a better shot, which it could definitely do in the fiction.
You are drastically increasing the calculations needed for los, especially if you have to the into account facing and torso twisting changing possible weapon los.
It gives some mechs very subtle advantages/disadvantages depending on exactly where the hardpoints are and the shape of the arms.
I've been straight up shot through mountains, buttes, pillars, prison walls etc. I think it's only by med lasers that I've noticed.
The very first time it was at the prison, and Decker went down because of it, CT cored out by a ML while hiding behind what I thought to be a solid wall. I was using him to sensor lock. While my others chucked over the wall to soften the mechs up a bit, I was in bad shape.
I couldn't believe it, I used the camera to pan around and couldn't see through a mech through the wall but just gave up and thought maybe the enemy was just that much of a badass gunner and put it through a peephole.
Later I started seeing ML's coming through whole chunks of mountains, and craggy pillars of rock that no matter which way I move the camera I cannot see both my mech, and the enemy. There is no SHOT.
The cheesy answer I got to this was that it was because gameplay is occurring dynamically, not statically so it is taking into account the mechs are "moving" during their firing turns when calculating hits... bull chips. The mech was standing still entrenched lobbing LRMS lol.
Never seems to happen with ballistics, PPC or LL and I can't do it to the enemy
The very first time it was at the prison, and Decker went down because of it, CT cored out by a ML while hiding behind what I thought to be a solid wall. I was using him to sensor lock. While my others chucked over the wall to soften the mechs up a bit, I was in bad shape.
I couldn't believe it, I used the camera to pan around and couldn't see through a mech through the wall but just gave up and thought maybe the enemy was just that much of a badass gunner and put it through a peephole.
Later I started seeing ML's coming through whole chunks of mountains, and craggy pillars of rock that no matter which way I move the camera I cannot see both my mech, and the enemy. There is no SHOT.
The cheesy answer I got to this was that it was because gameplay is occurring dynamically, not statically so it is taking into account the mechs are "moving" during their firing turns when calculating hits... bull chips. The mech was standing still entrenched lobbing LRMS lol.
Never seems to happen with ballistics, PPC or LL and I can't do it to the enemy
talked about, hashed out, but again. Mechs draw LOS from head, not from weapon points. Also the "ground" is a rep of the area not totally perfect. This was the best solution for the issue, and its easy to see when a mech can shoot or has part cover from the red lines.
There are two known bugs that may be involved here, separate from the international way los works described above:I've been straight up shot through mountains, buttes, pillars, prison walls etc. I think it's only by med lasers that I've noticed.
The very first time it was at the prison, and Decker went down because of it, CT cored out by a ML while hiding behind what I thought to be a solid wall. I was using him to sensor lock. While my others chucked over the wall to soften the mechs up a bit, I was in bad shape.
I couldn't believe it, I used the camera to pan around and couldn't see through a mech through the wall but just gave up and thought maybe the enemy was just that much of a badass gunner and put it through a peephole.
Later I started seeing ML's coming through whole chunks of mountains, and craggy pillars of rock that no matter which way I move the camera I cannot see both my mech, and the enemy. There is no SHOT.
The cheesy answer I got to this was that it was because gameplay is occurring dynamically, not statically so it is taking into account the mechs are "moving" during their firing turns when calculating hits... bull chips. The mech was standing still entrenched lobbing LRMS lol.
Never seems to happen with ballistics, PPC or LL and I can't do it to the enemy
1. That wall has some known masking problems. You're not the only one to get shot through it.
2. There is a bug with the AI's use of multishot where it only needs los to the first mech. Since the AI usually uses multishit to fire single medium lasers at extra targets to reduce evasion, that might explain why you only see it with MLs, though only if this is happening with multishot. (maybe a detail you didn't notice?)
All true, but I was trying to clarify the additional issue of asymmetric los, which is fairly rare (outside of fog-of-war problems) but does happen.
Thanks for this info, I will pay more attention to the multishot use. I have certainly noticed the AI using multishot MLs, but didn't catch whether or not it was in those cases. Mainly because I was hunkered behind a rock grinning then suddenly thinking Heeeyyyy... Might have a record a few...
had a similar thing but I was running along plateau and couldn't get sighted.
But if I jump jetted to the exact same location then I could shoot it.
Reason is real simple:
There was line of sight during travel.
Problem Solved.
But if I jump jetted to the exact same location then I could shoot it.
Reason is real simple:
There was line of sight during travel.
Problem Solved.