There's no reason to ever build energy districts

[Bki]

I got this idea when looking at the galactic market in an inward perfection + agrarian idyll game :

And well, the conclusion "Well, it's strictly better to build farms because not only I get amenities and more housing from them, but I can sell the food for more energy than I would get by building energy district".

But it's even worse than that. A farmer produce 6 food. A technician produce 4 energy credit. Even if you're selling your food on the domestic market you get 6*0.7 = 4.2 energy credit per pop.

So you can replace all your energy production with farms, still make as much money at least as you did, and get a food surplus that you can use to run the pop growth planetary edict so you can grow your pops (and economy) faster.

Suggested fix : Make energy production better.

 

[The Traitor]

You only have limited amount of tiles available for agriculture though.

 

[Bagfisch]

You only have limited amount of tiles available for agriculture though.

And you often have even less tiles available for energy production

 

[Bki]

You only have limited amount of tiles available for agriculture though.

Once you've filled all the farms and mine districts, you can just go for more housing for your specialists.

 

[SectorsAreOkay]

I hate these types of threads. They ruin the spirit and fun of the game. Of course, by careful analysis of all the numbers you can break the game. It's always possible. Of course you have to make a bunch of other concessions and it only supports basically one playstyle.

 

[jusuff]

But it's even worse than that. A farmer produce 6 food. A technician produce 4 energy credit. Even if you're selling your food on the domestic market you get 6*0.7 = 4.2 energy credit per pop.

Try to sell large amount of food (or any other resource) every month and you will see price going down and down.

 

[SirL]

I'd say more than than, i's perfectly viable to go only clerks and housing, make money from trade and buy everything off the market by using monthly trades. I tried it and it works. I did say somewhere in these forums that food is too op and energy districts are too bad, got like 40 dislikes

 

[Bki]

I hate these types of threads. They ruin the spirit and fun of the game. Of course, by careful analysis of all the numbers you can break the game. It's always possible. Of course you have to make a bunch of other concessions and it only supports basically one playstyle.

The issue is that there's no actual concession to make. And sure, empires that get some other benefits from building farms will benefit more from this, but the others would still get enough benefit that they don't have reason to use energy district.

Try to sell large amount of food (or any other resource) every month and you will see price going down and down.

Monthly trade. Set up for example to sell 50 food per month, the price will go down to 0.69 credits on the first day of the month then come back to 0.70 immediately after.

 

[Peter34]

Try to sell large amount of food (or any other resource) every month and you will see price going down and down.

The Internal Market is surprisingly robust, at least.

 

[Apophenia]

The issue is that there's no actual concession to make. And sure, empires that get some other benefits from building farms will benefit more from this, but the others would still get enough benefit that they don't have reason to use energy district.


Monthly trade. Set up for example to sell 50 food per month, the price will go down to 0.69 credits on the first day of the month then come back to 0.70 immediately after.

Having played some Agrarian idyll I can say there is concessions. When your planets get full it is much less efficient to switch over to doing big job buildings like research since your city district are worse than normal countries. Sure you might get lots of food and energy but you can't buy research planets.

 

[Bki]

Having played some Agrarian idyll I can say there is concessions. When your planets get full it is much less efficient to switch over to doing big job buildings like research since your city district are worse than normal countries. Sure you might get lots of food and energy but you can't buy research planets.

We're not talking about Agrarian Idyll necessarily. For anyone food districts are strictly superior to energy districts, that's the issue here. It's just that with AI you're building tons of farms which led to me noticing that fact.

 

[wtface]

Its surprising how much food the market can find a use for. Mandatory force feeding policy and planet decision and still the market (galactic or internal) can soak most of the food I can sell it. Not all, at some point more farm districts will start to drop the price and it wont be worth it to build more. Maybe we can pretend its biofuel?

 

[Matoro_TBS]

You're playing a highly specific civic combo. Sure, if your incredibly good at making food, you get amenities and housing with agri districts, sure, you should make food. But the rest of us who aren't agrarian idyll + inward perfection won't have that luxury.

 

[xMer]

Actually at certain sold volume prices start to get worse.
You can't simply sell 1000 food for that price and expect to get such good price, but indeed it is very good way to handle energy production.
Other more late game option is to make your energy to be trade based as trade require less districts per pop however early it is worse as it's efficiency per pop is worse.

xenophobes and authoritarians can make food from livestocks which are more efficient than farmers when it come to district cost. and overall superior to farmers with advanced gene-modding.
ex. if some empire offer to sell for 10k energy delicious, nerve stappled, communal pop then i would buy that on sight with either authoritarians or xenophobes.

 

[Zsrai]

How is your Food selling for 1.75? Mine always sells for the minimum(?) of 0.70 energy per 1 food.

Also, as has been said, you're running a very food focused and farm buffing set of civics. This is not nearly as efficient for any other set up than the one you are running.

 

[Bki]

Actually at certain sold volume prices start to get worse.
You can't simply sell 1000 food for that price and expect to get such good price, but indeed it is very good way to handle energy production.
Other more late game option is to make your energy to be trade based as trade require less districts per pop however early it is worse as it's efficiency per pop is worse.

I was selling around 600 food monthly and the price on the market was still stable at around 1.6 energy credit per food.

How is your Food selling for 1.75? Mine always sells for the minimum(?) of 0.70 energy per 1 food.

After the galactic market opened this somewhat happened. I have no real idea why. It went to a high point of 1.90, and seems to have stabilised at around 1.60.

Also, as has been said, you're running a very food focused and farm buffing set of civics. This is not nearly as efficient for any other set up than the one you are running.

Okay, let me explain it again simply for all of you people who don't bother reading.

Facts :
1 - A Technician produce 4 energy.
2 - A Farmer produce 6 food.

Conclusion :
Producing food and selling it is strictly better than bothering with energy districts as long as the market price stay above 0.67 energy credit per point of food. And food on the galactic market will easily sell for above 1.5 credit per food.

Agrarian Idyll is only relevant in that it benefit more from this than the other empire. Selling food is still superior than making energy "normally" for anyone.

 

[HoneyBadger88]

This would the depend on the Internal Market not getting price drops due to montly trades I assume? Or do you need access to the Galactic Market for this to work? Becuse as long as the price remains at the base 0.7 Energy per Food, I can see this getting you a small "profit" even without any bonuses.

If we assume you have 10 pops over, and the ability to build either 5 Energy districts or 5 Food districts. Building the Energy districts would give you 5 x 2x 4 = 40 Energy. Building the Food districs would give you 5 x 2 x 6 = 60 Food. If you then add a monthly trade of 60 Food for Energy, you would end up with 60 x 0.7 = 42 Energy. As long as the market price doesn't drop below 0.67 Energy per Food, you will break even or get a small profit by producing Food rather then Energy.
And if the Galactic Market pays you better than that, then I can see you swimming in Energy by simply building farms.

Have you tried doing this on a large scale? And does the market (Either Internal or Galactic) retain a stable price if you do so?

 

[Zsrai]

Producing food and selling it is strictly better than bothering with energy districts as long as the market price stay above 0.67 energy credit per point of food. And food on the galactic market will easily sell for above 1.5 credit per food.

Again, I never see it go over 0.70 so I'm not sure how you're getting it to go that high unless you're selling food. At 0.70 farms are equivalent, so it's a wash anyways.

 

[Xeorm]

Sounds more like a strategy specific to your game? I've never seen food selling for quite that much. Default price is .7 and that's usually where it sits. Something seems funky with the AI nations in your game if it's selling for that much. Are you on the beta patch too where they've tweaked the market? It's done a good job at making market specific strategies less worthwhile.

I could see it working out if you can routinely sell that much food, but my current empire needs to make ~2300 energy right now and still growing. That's a lot of food to sell.

 

[Delthor]

I was selling around 600 food monthly and the price on the market was still stable at around 1.6 energy credit per food.

This is pretty unusual. Base price is 1 energy to 1 food, so normally you can only sell it for 0.7-0.8 energy for 1 food with the market fee. The AI in the game must be buying a lot of food for some reason.

Facts :
1 - A Technician produce 4 energy.
2 - A Farmer produce 6 food.

Conclusion :
Producing food and selling it is strictly better than bothering with energy districts as long as the market price stay above 0.67 energy credit per point of food. And food on the galactic market will easily sell for above 1.5 credit per food.

Yeah... This imbalance is one of the reasons why machine empires struggle so much. Energy districts have to pull double duty for energy and food with less deposits and less yield per pop. It makes me wonder if the two were balanced out at 5 per, with minerals still being 4.