There's a party...and I am not invited (League War)

[von Schmidt]

Right, this is the second time this has happened - and I have no idea what to do.

I as Papal State am member of the Catholic League.
I have my own war, and then the League War breaks out.
I quickly finish my own war - within a few months time.
And then I just sit there.

Waiting for an invite to join in.

That never comes.

Since the Catholic leader Austria hates my guts, I cannot enforce peace on the Protestant leader - and I see no other way to join. Is this working as designed? How do I join or get a Call to Arms?

Help me oh forum and save me from a boring decade!

 

[bradles0]

if you're a great power, there is usually an imbalance to one side or the other. If there isn't just wait until there is one to join, and just rent condetteri to a catholic until then. If it looks like your side is winning quite nicely without you, almost no one is answering call to arms right now, so feel free to DOW all your enemies while their allies are indisposed.

also you probably want a weak empire as pope, so you would do best to try and force a peace of westphalia.

 

[Viktor Vaughn]

I don't understand the AI's reasoning on not sending a call to arms to all members of the league, just by default. There should be a huge penalty for turning down a call to arms (how could you sign up for this massive multi-nation war and then not show up).
This might be confirmation bias driven by salt as well, but it does seem that the protestant AI 'knows' when catholic nations won't join the war. If you are the league leader you have no way of knowing, as every box when deciding co-belligerents is greyed out. It is presented in a way that assumes that every member of the league will be in the war. But they aren't all of the time. It feels like the AI knows this and capitalises on it, often knocking out a large country early on because they were caught up in a small scuffle somewhere else.

So in general I think call to arms should be automatically distributed to everyone in the league, and there should be a much more severe penalty for turning it down.

 

[von Schmidt]

Agreed- I did not get a CTA during my own war, and no CTA afterwards either.

I suspect that I was initially excluded at the start of the War because I was at war with Ferrara (who was a Cath member!), since that would mean Ferrara and I would have been on opposing sides in one war *and* on the same side of the League war.

However I would still expect the League War CTA to kick in after conclusion of my private war since that was less than one year (four months or so).

Unless that did not happen b/c the Catholic League leader Austria hates me - but surely that should be overruled due to a League War being more important than anything else...

Puzzling!

 

[mhaell42]

Of this work the same as coalition you cannot call somebody in the war after it started.
So if you are eligible (le not war with a member of your faction) you get the CtA otherwise you never get it.
This is because it's not a formal alliance.

 

[True_Heir_of_Rome]

Why join the war at all? Use it as a time to fight anyone with allies tied up or low manpower. You can influence the war from the outside if you want one result or another.

 

[Coffer]

Why join the war at all? Use it as a time to fight anyone with allies tied up or low manpower. You can influence the war from the outside if you want one result or another.

Easier to, say, break France to the point of bankruptcy if you actually join. You're going to be able to beat every smaller nation around you easily anyway with or without exploiting the ongoing league war, so you might as well use the chance to cripple your biggest enemies, which sets you up very nicely for the next few decades. The only time this doesn't apply is if you're too insignificant by the time the war starts, which, given how the game is right now, is not going to happen very often.

 

[mhaell42]

Easier to, say, break France to the point of bankruptcy if you actually join. You're going to be able to beat every smaller nation around you easily anyway with or without exploiting the ongoing league war, so you might as well use the chance to cripple your biggest enemies, which sets you up very nicely for the next few decades. The only time this doesn't apply is if you're too insignificant by the time the war starts, which, given how the game is right now, is not going to happen very often.

I dont think you can break France in a religious war. The only reasonable goal in this war would be preventing Austria from becoming emperor.
It's far better to declare your own war on the side. The risk in being part of the religious war is your country getting focused and the AI not peacing out.

 

[Coffer]

I dont think you can break France in a religious war. The only reasonable goal in this war would be preventing Austria from becoming emperor.
It's far better to declare your own war on the side. The risk in being part of the religious war is your country getting focused and the AI not peacing out.

I did just that in my last two wars. Even if you don't break them outright, dealing extreme damage and letting them rot as long as possible leaves them very vulnerable immediately afterwards as they don't recover fast enough (sometimes they never recover at all, like in my last run). The same goes for the Ottomans if they join.

As for your country getting focused, that's not going to happen unless your position is exceptionally precarious, which usually goes hand in hand with what I said earlier about being too insignificant by the time the war starts. Not many starts have that problem, and for the most part the Papal State isn't one of them.

 

[True_Heir_of_Rome]

If you want to break France just declare your own war. It's probably better, because you can control when it ends. I fail to see why you would need the league war to break France.

 

[Coffer]

If you want to break France just declare your own war. It's probably better, because you can control when it ends. I fail to see why you would need the league war to break France.

That's when you truly run into big risks, as the AI will very gladly kill itself to try and kill you if you're (mostly) alone in a separate war. Doing it in the actual league war itself if given the opportunity is much safer.

 

[hermithill]

Agreed- I did not get a CTA during my own war, and no CTA afterwards either.

I suspect that I was initially excluded at the start of the War because I was at war with Ferrara (who was a Cath member!), since that would mean Ferrara and I would have been on opposing sides in one war *and* on the same side of the League war.

However I would still expect the League War CTA to kick in after conclusion of my private war since that was less than one year (four months or so).

Unless that did not happen b/c the Catholic League leader Austria hates me - but surely that should be overruled due to a League War being more important than anything else...

Puzzling!

The reason why you were not called in the first place is the one you mention: your war with Ferrara (Even if Ferrara were on the Protestant side, one of you would not have been called, because you cannot be in two wars on the opposite side at the same time. What remains unclear (at least to me) is how the one who is called is chosen).

Second, afaik, you can be called only when the war breaks out.

If you want to joint, you need to ally Austria (probably impossible if they hate you), enforce peace (not sure that it works with the league war, never tried it - but in your case also probably impossible as they hate you), or intervene as a GP.

 

[mhaell42]

That's when you truly run into big risks, as the AI will very gladly kill itself to try and kill you if you're (mostly) alone in a separate war. Doing it in the actual league war itself if given the opportunity is much safer.

It will do the same in a war league. And if you are not the war leader the AI will peace out before any damage is done

 

[Coffer]

It will do the same in a war league. And if you are not the war leader the AI will peace out before any damage is done

There was a thread on this just recently. The AI takes its sweet time to peace out, meaning you can destroy everything in France with extreme ease. And no, what I said only applies to separate wars, which is the only time France will have a safe opportunity to suicide into you as the priority system goes completely out of control in that situation and you'll have almost nobody to support you. If you're in the league war itself, France will never focus you unless you're right next to it. If you are, it means the center of war is right there, which is the absolute last place on Earth France and Spain want to be in during the war if they don't want to be stackwiped repeatedly.

 

[Bibor]

One the league is up, any ineglible states will be weighted in for the declaration of the League war. If your country is a significant power and can't join at the moment, the AI will take that opportunity and declare the war.

If you want to join for whatever reason (missionary strength, military tradition, age objective or just for lulz), it's time to wrap up and peace out of anything you are currently doing and pray the warscore and war duration is low enough that the leader of your faction can call you in. It will call you in, if you meet the critera.

 

[von Schmidt]

The reason why you were not called in the first place is the one you mention: your war with Ferrara (Even if Ferrara were on the Protestant side, one of you would not have been called, because you cannot be in two wars on the opposite side at the same time. What remains unclear (at least to me) is how the one who is called is chosen).

Second, afaik, you can be called only when the war breaks out.

If you want to joint, you need to ally Austria (probably impossible if they hate you), enforce peace (not sure that it works with the league war, never tried it - but in your case also probably impossible as they hate you), or intervene as a GP.

Thanks to all who replied.

@ Hermithill, I think you are right on the reason for the lack of initial CTA. It is just so very puzzling that no additional CTA takes place once I am at peace! Quite different from normal wars.
FYI, I actually increased my relationship values with Austria in the savegame out of curiosity - and you CAN use enforce peace on a League war leader. Pomeria refused and I joined on the Catholic side.
Also weird: there were two GP's on the protestant side and none on the Catholic side - but I could not join as GP intervention since at least 1 GP apparently needs to be involved at each side.

@ True Heir Of Rome, I was the ruler of the Kingdom of God on Earth, the armoured fist of the Mother Church - of course I had to join at the Catholic side to help my brethren!
And apart from the role playing, I just enjoy league wars since they are so very chaotic compared to the clinical wars of choice. France can be taken apart at some point in the not too distant future anyway.

@Bibor,
I waited a few years on my original game and was not called in. So I went back a few years (no Ironman for me - I enjoy experimenting too much, and especially switching to a new country once I have "won" with my original tag.). Finished my Ferrara war halfway through and waited. Within the year, the League broke out and I was CTA-ed.
Success!
(and then we were smashed to bits since protestants with France and Poland outnumbered us good guys 2.5:1. But we don't mention that detail in the Vatican history books).

So many hours playing EU4 and I still learn new things. Such a great, great game.

-von Schmidt

 

[hermithill]

you CAN use enforce peace on a League war leader

Interesting to know, never tried that. It might be a way to enforce the peace of Westphalia.

I could not join as GP intervention since at least 1 GP apparently needs to be involved at each side.

Yes, it seems a little bit strange, but it's the rule. 2 vs 1 is OK, but 7 vs 0 is not because it is not considered as a GP conflict.

 

[Bibor]

I waited a few years on my original game and was not called in.

IIRC for the warleader to be able to call you in, the war must be active for less than 29 months and the warscore must be 30% or less. My guess is that one of these two factors prevented Austria from calling you in.