There Will Be War

[BurningEGO]

Well the relevant rule is in the past tense, so my interpretation is that it's only after the 3rd absence that you're fair game:

Exactly. And Hyme was never absence for 3 games in a row. If he misses next session, he will. But today, he was not.

 

[King of Men]

I'll fix up the inbred trait, and you're right, I'll give them a point or two of fert and health as well. Be glad you got sons, both my extra pregnancies were daughters.

Jorian, you're right, you were there on time, but somehow I forgot to write you down. Sorry. Cookie for you also.

Sterk, you mentioned some of your vassals were legal, presumably because they were acquired by conquest. Could you please say more clearly which ones they are, so I can edit appropriately?

I must say that the Bohemia thing does look rather fishy. I won't rule on it right now because I'm kinda tired. For the benefit of those who weren't there: Poland attacked and vassalised several Hungarian Dukes, including Bohemia. As far as I know he did not take any titles, only vassalisations; so if this is found illegal, it's easy to edit back.

 

[BurningEGO]

As far as I know he did not take any titles, only vassalisations; so if this is found illegal, it's easy to edit back.

He did take one county at the very least from Bohemia. Praha. I do not know if he took more. But its quite possible.

 

[Sterkarm]

I did not take more than Praha (from Bohemia). Also I did not use illegal vassal troops at any point in battle. My vassals in Hungary and Germany are legal and I used those troops, that's all.

Main reason I took Bohemia: I didn't realize it was even played anymore. I hadn't seen any posts by Hyme in the forums or anything else, and I sort of forgot in the midst of constant fighting against Hungary (and then Sid) about a lot of other things around me.

 

[King of Men]

Ok, looking at young Pedro, I see he has very good fertility but not much health, and his other stats are all nonzero. Ingame, however, they show as zeroes. So I conclude that what's in the save file is the unmodified stats, and by removing the inbredness, he will get back his natural fertility and health. So I'll just do that.

Incidentally, Leon must be destroyed.

 

[BurningEGO]

I did not take more than Praha (from Bohemia). Also I did not use illegal vassal troops at any point in battle. My vassals in Hungary and Germany are legal and I used those troops, that's all.

???

Then tell me why your vassals in France got NO TROOPS to be mustered? An UFO passed by and abducted them?

 

[King of Men]

Oh, I forgot: About the AAR rewards, shall we adopt jorian's suggestion of 500 gold or 250 prestige or 250 piety? Or would smaller amounts, say 250/100/100, be better? Let's keep in mind that the gold reward needs to scale such that the choice of reward is a genuine choice, and not the no-brainer "Give me a pregnancy", which has been my impression lately. Opinions please.

All opinions are welcome so long as they agree that Leon must be destroyed.

 

[BurningEGO]

500-100-100 seems more apropriate imo. 250 gold is nothing. But 250 prestige/piety is too much. If we keep claiming Piety every session (which are 6 years in average) we will be able to melt bloody BB points away fast.

As for Leon, i believe no one wants to destroy me. I am a benevolent ruler. I conquered the Middle east for Jorian. I conquered Ireland for Cutie. I accepted Muscowy as a vassal to protect them from the Polish menace.

I help all my allies whenever they need me. As for Norway - Do i need to remind people what hapened to their allies? Denmark ended with a knife on his back. My empire in MTT ended mutilated because i decided to help him (and i just heard that consequently Madrid got nuked countless times! - but hopefully the Spanish time travelers will avoid this catastrophe by taking the right measures!). And now, as we speak, Scotland which is in the middle of outright civil war, just got a new pretender to the throne, obviously, a Norwegian one. Whoever has this Heathen from Norway as an Ally, does not need enemies.

But know that i will not tolerate anyone messing with the Jimenez family and its allies. If anyone does this, he will have to taste Spanish Steel, and mind you, steel from Toledo makes the strongest swords in the world! Combine that with my army composed of 170000 men... and Poo-Poo-Bi-Doo.

 

[BurningEGO]

Btw Sterk, acordingly to rules you can only peace Muscowy after 3 years from now on.

EDITED:

About Pedro, delete it tbh, it is screwed one way or another (PLEASE dont try to screw me so much KOM! ). Make my wife pregnant again. (i will also ask pregnancy in this AAr so i hope this time you make a Random courtier pregnant, and one that is not of my family!)

 

[BurningEGO]

I did not take more than Praha (from Bohemia). Also I did not use illegal vassal troops at any point in battle. My vassals in Hungary and Germany are legal and I used those troops, that's all.

After checking it carefully you also took Krakowskie. Praha, Krakowskie and the vassalization with Bohemia should be edited acordingly to the rules.

 

[King of Men]

Ok, I'll kill Pedro and make some different courtier pregnant. Don't blame me if you get a daughter this time.

For the rewards, let's go with a 500/250/100 scheme. Prestige is easier to get than piety, so it's worth less.

 

[BurningEGO]

Well you got a point in there. Do you have a better suggestion? Could you make Pedro have the same stats Aznar has or something? I dont want to have a nearly useless heir.

Meh, maybe its better to go with another pregnancy, unless you really got a better suggestion.

 

[Sterkarm]

After checking it carefully you also took Krakowskie. Praha, Krakowskie and the vassalization with Bohemia should be edited acordingly to the rules.

Krakowskie was not Bohemian. It was controlled by either Silesia or Hungary.

Also, you have not declared war on me yet, I'm waiting for you to come with your supposedly vast hordes (so that I can kick their ass up and down the block). Not to mention, since when does the vassal-peace rule include human vassals? I think that's a bit ridiculous because AI vassals are totally different than human-played vassals. Regardless, until you declare war, I can do whatever I want to Muscowy because I was at war with him long before he was your vassal.

And why would anybody not want to destroy you? You expressed it so simply yourself by saying "I am a benevolent ruler." Few people (especially those with an overdeveloped alpha-male complex such as myself) like being "ruled" by anyone else, much less somebody who's very quick to point it out whenever he does well or "helps" anybody with anything.

 

[joriandrake]

since when does the vassal-peace rule include human vassals?

since always, i also was under the same rule, there is no exception for humans in that case

but yes, you were in war before sid became léonese vassal, so if EGO doesnt DOW you then you can normally start to annex sid after the 3 years, if he does DOW you then the timer restarts because the overlord, this happened when antiochea was controlled by georgia when it became my vassal, we had to DOW Georgia to defend my vassal. it is the exactly same situation

And why would anybody not want to destroy you? You expressed it so simply yourself by saying "I am a benevolent ruler." Few people (especially those with an overdeveloped alpha-male complex such as myself) like being "ruled" by anyone else, much less somebody who's very quick to point it out whenever he does well or "helps" anybody with anything.

I don't want to destroy him, till now anything he agreed on he held, i myself denied about 2 times atleast to become some king, it is really benefitical to be supported by the strongest nation on earth, and till the future realms of my agreed kingdom aren't reached i won't become king: this makes him a bit stronger for a bit longer time, and ensures when i become a king others can't just invade a newborn, weak kingdom, because by that time the provinces will be organized and non of us two will suffer from 'incorrect abnormalities' in the split (correct provs and duchies go to the correct realm, ect)
Right now it is the best to be part of the leonese kingdom, its greater than to be part of the HRE already, even more after a large chunk of russia joined the "Léonese Commonwealth"

I hope to see a full eradication of orthodoxy, it already started

 

[Lurken]

since always, i also was under the same rule, there is no exception for humans in that case

but yes, you were in war before sid became léonese vassal, so if EGO doesnt DOW you then you can normally start to annex sid after the 3 years, if he does DOW you then the timer restarts because the overlord, this happened when antiochea was controlled by georgia when it became my vassal, we had to DOW Georgia to defend my vassal. it is the exactly same situation

After three years of with Sid, Sterkarm can start peacing Sids vassals, according to the rules, in the case that EGO doesn't DoW. However if EGO DoWs, Sterkarm has still been at war against Sid in, let say three years, and should still be able to peace Sids vassal.

The case with Antiochea was that Georgia already DoWed them before they became your vassal, and thus Georgia was forced to wait three years.

However, the big difference that I can see, is that Sid has vassals, Antiochea did not AFAIK, and thus the three years rule should apply.

 

[joriandrake]

After three years of with Sid, Sterkarm can start peacing Sids vassals, according to the rules, in the case that EGO doesn't DoW. However if EGO DoWs, Sterkarm has still been at war against Sid in, let say three years, and should still be able to peace Sids vassal.

The case with Antiochea was that Georgia already DoWed them before they became your vassal, and thus Georgia was forced to wait three years.

However, the big difference that I can see, is that Sid has vassals, Antiochea did not AFAIK, and thus the three years rule should apply.

nope it is the same case:

1. georgia at war with the vassal of antioch, antioch has to dow geogia to defend its vassal, leon joins in to support its vassal (antioch) in the war, the timer restarts


2. poland at war with the vassal of muscowy, muscowy has to dow poland to defend its vassal (this already happened as far i know), leon joins in to support its vassal (muscowy) in the war, the timer restarts

this is a 'chain reaction'

it can be that i misunderstand something, or that i don't know some details, but the 2 do look the same to me

 

[Lurken]

Well correct that Sterkarm isn't allowed to peace Sid against EGOs will until three years has gone. However, the three years rule should be applied to vassals of vassals. In the case that you bring up, the time that was between the georgian DoW and the Leonese DoW were not that great. In this case, Poland-Muscowy, there has already been some time elapsed. That is a difference.

Since Leon didn't DoW Poland in support of Muscowy right away when Muscowy became vassals of Leon, AFAIK, why would the timer restart when Leon does it? The rules says so that it would. However, would the years(?) of war against Muscowy fly out of the window even if there has gone 2.9 years after DoW if Leon joins in? It seems a bit absurd. So my personal opinion, not my GM-opinion, is that after three years of war against Muscowy peacing would be allowed against Muscowys vassals, since Leon did not DoW Poland in support of Muscowy the moment when they became vassals of Leon. If Leon would have done so, then the timer should have restarted imho.

 

[BurningEGO]

Since Leon didn't DoW Poland in support of Muscowy right away when Muscowy became vassals of Leon, AFAIK, why would the timer restart when Leon does it? The rules says so that it would

.

Well we had a problem with the vassalization. When Muscowy accepted my proposal they sudently became a Byzantine vassal, and KOM had to edit the entire stuff out. He took so long time and once we started playing, the game couldnt start for some reason and thus i was unable to DOW, obviously. Isnt my fault.

 

[Lurken]

.

Well we had a problem with the vassalization. When Muscowy accepted my proposal they sudently became a Byzantine vassal, and KOM had to edit the entire stuff out. He took so long time and once we started playing, the game couldnt start for some reason and thus i was unable to DOW, obviously. Isnt my fault.

IRL time isn't relevant. What is relevant is In-Game time. Did Leon DoW Poland as soon as possible after the vassalization of Muscowy or not? That is the relevant matter here, imho.

 

[Sid Meier]

How could he? I wasnt by game mechanics leons vassal, I was Byzantiums vassal, Leon couldnt dow me because of a bug otherwise they would have dowed right away.

Also what happened is that I dowed Kiev, and in responce Poland dowed me, afaik none of my vassals are at war with Poland.