There should be the option of removing/moving IC

[Loke]

There should be the option of removing/moving IC, and other things, in enemy territory or territory that you control.

One of the things that annoyed me sometimes in previous Hoi games was the inability to remove any buildings once they've been constructed, to prevent their use by the enemy.

This should be for 2 reasons:

- So you can raid enemy territory, dismantle their forts/IC/infrastructure, and retreat, setting up the area for future attacks. Otherwise there's no real value in raiding the enemy if you can't weaken them in the long term!
- So you can weaken the enemy by destroying advantages they can acheive by reoccupying their territory.

Historical examples: the plan for the Dieppe raid, the Soviet transfer of industry to the east (which was previously represented by event, and I have no problems with that here, but the ability to do it elsewhere and on a custom scale would also be nice), dismantling the Maginot line, scorched earth strategies in general and Hitler's, admittedly largely unfulfilled, order to remove everything in the path of the Soviet advance.

Soo please can we be able to do this?

Yea agreed.

For instance say you have 10 factories(IC) in Kiev when the Germans launch Barbarossa.
You hit the "move industry to Magnitorsk (or whatever city)"button... And so - one factory(IC) a week starts relocating towards its destination, with some time, a couple of months? to gear up.
That gives a temporary stop to production and the Germans a chance to capture it....

 

[Daelyn75]

The greatest use I can see for this other than sabotaging the enemy, is to get rid of any non naval factories along the coasts, so you can refit your industry to start building a larger fleet. As Germany, I find it hard to imagine having coasts from Konigsberg to Bordeaux that you wouldn't have enough, or potentially enough naval dockyards to compete with anyone. It just might take some re-configuring of your factories, that's all.

 

[Nicolas I]

There's a good mechanism for soviet factory evacuation in Gary Grigsby's War in the East where you have to chose when to evacuate factories and how much factories (related to limited rail capacity). Displaced factories begin with only 1 production and slowly regain (up to the numbers of evacuated factories). So you have an incentive to not move them too soon as you lose much production, but by waiting too long you may risk losing all these factories.

To avoid abuse, the decision to move factories could cost political points. Maybe some countries that historically moved their factories could have a national focus enabling this and/or reducing the political cost.

 

[General WVPM]

Slow and expensive (and inefficient) 'move industry' where you dismantle factories and use what you can from them to build new ones on a different location (like the HOI3 Russian event)
And 'destroy industry' option where you just place explosives and blow the whole thing up (quicker, but might lower national unity).
Would that be a good way?

 

[Axe99]

The greatest use I can see for this other than sabotaging the enemy, is to get rid of any non naval factories along the coasts, so you can refit your industry to start building a larger fleet. As Germany, I find it hard to imagine having coasts from Konigsberg to Bordeaux that you wouldn't have enough, or potentially enough naval dockyards to compete with anyone. It just might take some re-configuring of your factories, that's all.

If we're talking historical plausibility, keep in mind that the US out-produced everyone combined over the period - and the UK alone nearly matched the combined naval production of the Axis nations. If Germany and Japan control all of Eurasia I think they could eventually re-gear they production to build a competitive navy, but this would take longer than the game's timeframe allows.

That said, I'm happy enough with the game allowing for some crazy production shifts in the sake of fun .

 

[Daelyn75]

If we're talking historical plausibility, keep in mind that the US out-produced everyone combined over the period - and the UK alone nearly matched the combined naval production of the Axis nations. If Germany and Japan control all of Eurasia I think they could eventually re-gear they production to build a competitive navy, but this would take longer than the game's timeframe allows.

That said, I'm happy enough with the game allowing for some crazy production shifts in the sake of fun .

No, that is exactly what I am thinking. Start around 1943-44 when the Soviets are defeated and just go to town making a navy as Germany. I think it could be done within the game's time frame, but a full invasion of the USA might start around 1947-1948 so that part would be outside of the time frame of the game. I am confident with future DLC and or mods that that issue will be overcome.

One thing that I really appreciate with modded games of HOI, especially HOI II/AOD/DH is that the time of the game going into the 60s really allows me to relax with my conquests and not worry that if it's not all rushed by 1948 then I might as well quit. As Japan in one of my old AOD games from years back, I conquered the eastern half of the Soviets, Germany got the west, all of Asia, and Australasia was mine, so were South Africa, parts of the Middle East, Mexico, Canada, the USA, and I ended it with a final invasion of Great Britain.

Britain was a tough nut to crack, and I wondered why Germany couldn't do it until I tried it. I literally could not land anywhere, since their defenses were insane. I had to invade Ireland, and set up my invasion from there since Fortress Britain was otherwise impregnable. I think the game ended in about 1954. It was the best HOI game I have ever played. The USA put up a big fight, but with my advanced carrier fleets supporting the new jet aircraft, I was able to beat their carriers down little by little until they had nothing to throw at me come invasion time.

 

[Axe99]

No, that is exactly what I am thinking. Start around 1943-44 when the Soviets are defeated and just go to town making a navy as Germany. I think it could be done within the game's time frame, but a full invasion of the USA might start around 1947-1948 so that part would be outside of the time frame of the game. I am confident with future DLC and or mods that that issue will be overcome.

I'm talking historically plausible rather than past-HoI plausible (which are two very different things). It takes years to build shipyards, and then more years to build capital ships (and the USSR didn't have a huge number of dockyards capable of building large ships). Assuming no resistance issues at all (which is also historically implausible - the Germans tried to complete a number of partially built French naval vessels that they captured, and either none or almost none were completed because of sabotage or bombing), the naval production capacity of Germany plus Italy plus France plus Japan plus China is not enough to match that of the US plus UK, without building substantially more ship construction infrastructure, which should take years, not months.

I do agree it would be plausible over the longer term - pushing it into the mid-1950s - but there's just not enough time even if the Axis magically took control of all of Eurasia in 1942 to build a fleet that's going to be able to support an invasion of the US and UK.

Of course, there is time to build an air force that could bomb anything that came near the Channel into smithereens - but in the timeframe of the game, with plausible mechanics, air power would be the main way to beat the RN, rather than sea power - but in the timeframe of the game, there's no-one that can compete with the US if their naval production figures are historically plausible. Again, not suggesting the Axis shouldn't get a leg-up on this front for the fun-factor, so in-game (rather than historically plausible) I have no issue with it taking place .

 

[joe9594]

I think that permanently destroying industry would be a little strong but given that it now costs civilian IC to repair you could just have it totally damage everything. In WWW there is still stuff in France that hasn't been repaired that was captured years ago.

 

[Adonnus]

Slow and expensive (and inefficient) 'move industry' where you dismantle factories and use what you can from them to build new ones on a different location (like the HOI3 Russian event)
And 'destroy industry' option where you just place explosives and blow the whole thing up (quicker, but might lower national unity).
Would that be a good way?

Unless it's enemy factories you're destroying, then their NU might take a hit? Just a small hit.

 

[General WVPM]

Unless it's enemy factories you're destroying, then their NU might take a hit? Just a small hit.

Good point, I'd say it would not hurt their NU since it would already hurt in terms of factories which can't be recaptured.