There should be a war option that imposes closed borders

[TrotBot]

Sometimes, you wanna go to war because the AI shoved a construction ship deep in your territory. But if you do that, well even if you take back what's yours, you've now opened your country for ten years for dozens of construction ships. Sometimes a space fauna or a crisis will wipe out starbases you used to have, and boom you're gonna lose them to a neighbour you're gonna have to keep going to war with over this dumb interaction.

Also, I think you should get a passive claim on any system you have encircled, whether you've already built a starbase there or not, maybe make the AI take that into account before sending construction ships to build outposts that will definitely be wiped out in war.

 

[Bankipriel]

A thousand times, yes. This flawed mechanic has been a splinter in the mind for far too long.

 

[Shark7]

Yes, in fact all sides that lose a war should have their borders forced open, while the victor gets to maintain closed borders.

 

[Leylos]

I think borders are always opened after a war so that both sides have a chance to analyze space debris.

 

[grommile]

I think borders are always opened after a war so that both sides have a chance to analyze space debris.

I'm sure that is the design motivation.

Whether it's aesthetically or mechanically sound as a reason is a separate (interesting) question on whose answer I have no firm opinion.

 

[ZomgK3tchup]

Post-war open borders exist so that ships don't get stuck in places they shouldn't. Nobody wants their entire fleet stuck halfway across the galaxy because it was in the wrong system when the war ended.

EU4 had an interesting solution to this problem. Armies get an "Exiled" status when they're in territory they no longer have access to. They can't fight battles or siege provinces until they return to a friendly province. Not sure how well this system would work for Stellaris, but it's a potential solution to post-war open border weirdness.

On the other hand, EU4's border system is so convoluted that I'm not sure I'd want many mechanics borrowed from it.

Sometimes a space fauna or a crisis will wipe out starbases you used to have, and boom you're gonna lose them to a neighbour you're gonna have to keep going to war with over this dumb interaction.

Agreed.

The claims system really needs to be fleshed out. It's weird/frustrating that the galaxy has collective amnesia the second your starbase is destroyed.

 

[grommile]

Post-war open borders exist so that ships don't get stuck in places they shouldn't. Nobody wants their entire fleet stuck halfway across the galaxy because it was in the wrong system when the war ended.

Stellaris has a button for that situation (because there are other ways it can happen, like someone you hate building a starbase behind you).

 

[SirBlackAxe]

What I want is a set of three different border policies:

• Military access: Allows military fleets. Auto enabled by defensive pacts.
• Recon access: Allows science ships. Auto enabled by research agreements.
• Civilian access: Allows all civilian ships and trade routes. Auto enabled by migration treaties.

A truce would give military access (so your fleets aren't shoved into emergency ftl) and recon access (for debris analysis), but not full civilian access.

 

[sortulv]

Sometimes, you wanna go to war because the AI shoved a construction ship deep in your territory. But if you do that, well even if you take back what's yours, you've now opened your country for ten years for dozens of construction ships. Sometimes a space fauna or a crisis will wipe out starbases you used to have, and boom you're gonna lose them to a neighbour you're gonna have to keep going to war with over this dumb interaction.

Agree with this. Tried of letting people fly in just because they surrendered...

Also, I think you should get a passive claim on any system you have encircled, whether you've already built a starbase there or not, maybe make the AI take that into account before sending construction ships to build outposts that will definitely be wiped out in war.

Don't agree with this. Claims should still cost influence, any starbase does, so no reason you should get one for free just because someone else built there. The claim on bordering systems is already dirt cheap.

 

[TrotBot]

Agree with this. Tried of letting people fly in just because they surrendered...


Don't agree with this. Claims should still cost influence, any starbase does, so no reason you should get one for free just because someone else built there. The claim on bordering systems is already dirt cheap.

it just sucks it makes defaulting to closed borders the correct way to play the game. like people who have default closed borders don't need to worry about a neighbour going deep into their territory to get that one system that is not yet constructed, though it is surrounded by me on every side.

 

[kviiri]

I would like to counter: Stellaris has too many closed borders in the first place, and in their desire to create chokepoints and strategic gameplay the developers have achieved the grand feat of creating a the most constrained Paradox GSG despite being set in space, the vastest ocean imaginable. The game should be built such that most of the space is always freely traversable. Problems that rise from open borders should be fixed on their own – just as they should be in the current model.

 

[Zoomy]

The claims system really needs to be fleshed out. It's weird/frustrating that the galaxy has collective amnesia the second your starbase is destroyed.

There's nothing worse than losing vast swathes of territory to a crisis, only to watch as your federation "ally" just waltzes in with a construction ship and steals all your territory and you can't do anything because, again, this treacherous whelp is ostensibly an ally.

 

[RabbaDooDabba]

First and foremost, I think, claims should be "stored" in the system rather than the starbase ("Oh, you have 10 claims on this fomer system of yours ? How about I delete and rebuild the outpost..." There go all your claims)
Which would also prevent me from losing claims on systems a nemesis empire or a crisis have destroyed.

And what has really frustrated me for quite some time now is how horribly, horribly underutilised wargoals & casus belli are.
Why are only the Fallen Empires allowed to use the cool CBs (e.g. Ban AI, ban slavery, decontaminate border)
Why can't there be wargoals where you impose just a single ethic. I just want to nudge the misled xenos onto the true path, not overthrow their entire government and culture.
Why can't any xenophobes get a "surrender my species" casus belli and so on...

 

[grommile]

it just sucks it makes defaulting to closed borders the correct way to play the game

One more reason why playing on max hyperlanes is great.

(Seriously, I haven't seen the AI even try to leapfrog me in the beta, because max hyperlanes makes box-in less likely to happen in the first place.)

 

[Mastikator]

There's nothing worse than losing vast swathes of territory to a crisis, only to watch as your federation "ally" just waltzes in with a construction ship and steals all your territory and you can't do anything because, again, this treacherous whelp is ostensibly an ally.

This is why you should never have allies in Stellaris. The game is not built to support having allies, or even vassals for that matter.

 

[Ludaire]

First and foremost, I think, claims should be "stored" in the system rather than the starbase

I think this plus friendly AI not building in a system claimed by you would be enough to solve most issues and doesn't seem like it would be that hard.

The only other thing is that I wish they wouldn't skip over your borders to grab single systems. I feel like there should be several contiguous systems that they can try to grab before they do that. Or at least not do so unless it's an extra valuable system like one with habitable planets.

 

[fourteenfour]

I think borders are always opened after a war so that both sides have a chance to analyze space debris.

Then only permit science ships. That is a simple line of code. All other ships are immediately routed to the nearest friendly system and the only non combatant allowed are science ships.

 

[TrotBot]

Then only permit science ships. That is a simple line of code. All other ships are immediately routed to the nearest friendly system and the only non combatant allowed are science ships.

Perfect. Yeah I see no reason construction ships by the loser should be allowed.