There should be a sticky thread on acceptable features of CK3 mods

There should be a sticky thread on acceptable features of CK3 mods

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Draniels

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Race, Sexuality, Gender maybe? The typical stuff cancel culture would cancel you for is a good bet. Just post or find the mods in third party forums.
 
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Agent.nihilist

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Race, Sexuality, Gender maybe? The typical stuff cancel culture would cancel you for is a good bet. Just post or find the mods in third party forums.
Those are all fine.

You just can't package it like a jackass, and are required to be respectful to others. You're not going to get "cancelled" if you make a mod that alters mechanics as long as you don't market it in an offensive way.
 
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LSF

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I agree entirely. It is impossible to list every possible individual example of what would be a violation. This is why we need to use human beings who exercise discretion in decision-making.

Since we're talking about this in the context of a computer game, it's interesting to note that this is also why it's impossible to construct an AI that can reliably beat human players (without cheating). We simply can't create a list of variables for a computer to take into account that can match what the human brain is able to take into account.

(Inb4 someone brings it up, to the extent that they are provided to a computer, it can process them and make calculations to extents and speeds that human brains can only dream of.)
Yes, you are probably right. It is a so complex matter that they are forced to use discretion instead of rules. But they could at least provide some basic guidelines.

And a better way to adress it (at least in the fora) could be close the threads instead of deleting them. They can close the threads with a final statement explaining why they are doing that.
 
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Madfrancis

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So wait. No one actually knows WHY they took the mod down? It's just the assumption that it's SJW censorship? Or did I miss something or someone who ACTUALLY knows why the post/mod was removed?
 
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Madfrancis

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I'm not sure where you are finding any ambiguity? These rules seem pretty clear.

6. Mods
We at Paradox love user modding and mods to our games and want to encourage you to mod. We see benefits for everyone involved. The EULA and these Terms of Use outlines under which conditions you may create and distribute mods of Paradox’s games. Paradox is not always the owner of the intellectual property into a game which it publishes, and therefore, Paradox cannot unconditionally allow modding to all games published by us. If you are unsure of which games are affected, please contact support. These Terms of Use applies to all mods, including mods distributed through third party platforms such as Steam Workshop, created by you. 1. Paradox recognizes that you are the owner of the elements of the mod which are your original creative work. However, any elements of the mod which represent, derive from, or is based upon a Game (for example characters, settings, plot, artwork, sound and locations) shall be owned by Paradox, and you agree that all right, title and interest into such shall vest with Paradox.

  1. To create mods, Paradox may make available mod tools to you. Provided that you comply with these Terms of Use and the EULA, and upon your acceptance of the EULA, Paradox grants to you a non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited, revocable right and licence to install, access and use in-game modding tools and any other related tools provided by Paradox to you (including, for example, the Clauzewitz® Maya Exporter) to create and distribute mods.
  2. Any use of the mod tools, and creation and publication of mods, is for strictly non-commercial purposes only, and you may not require any fees but may receive voluntary donations for your creation, publication and/or use of mods
  3. By publishing a mod based on a Paradox game, you hereby grant to Paradox and its affiliates a non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable and perpetual right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, publicly display and publicly perform your mod. Explicitly, this license shall include the right to make the mod publicly available through other channels of distribution, and the right to adapt a mod to be compatible with other platforms. This license shall survive termination of the EULA.
  4. Your mod may not contain any material which (i) infringes any applicable law; (ii) resemblance any recognisable third party brand, character or personality, including but not limited to any trademarks or logos except for those assets provided by Paradox; (iii) any third party assets, from other games published by Paradox and its affiliates or any other third party; (iv) any viruses, Trojan horses, worms, corrupted files, or any other similar software or program; (v) is obscene, indecent, pornographic, offensive, defamatory, fraudulent, threatening, hate speech, liable to incite racial hatred, acts of terrorism or violence, menacing, blasphemous or contains nudity or gratuitous or graphic violence; (vii) has been posted or published in breach of a third party’s rights (including intellectual property rights); (viii) brings, or is likely to bring, Paradox, its affiliates, licensees or licensors into disrepute; or (ix) in relation to mods related for example to the game Cities: Skylines®, make reference to any organisation whose principal business includes the sale of tobacco or tobacco related products, or firearms.
  5. You represent and warrant that any mod created by you, and your grant of rights in such mod, does not violate any applicable contract, law or regulation, and that the mod is your original creative work and does not infringe any third party´s intellectual property rights or any other rights. Paradox specifically disclaims any liability with regard to any mod, and you agree to indemnify, defend and hold Paradox and its, affiliates, licensees, contractors, officers, directors, employees and agents harmless from any damages, losses, cost and expenses (including attorneys’ fees) arising directly or indirectly from any acts and omissions associated with the use of any Mod which you create and publish.
  6. We reserve the right to suspend access to, or terminate your licence for, any mods published by you or modding tools provided by us. Paradox is under no obligation to use, distribute or continue to distribute mods, and you understand that Paradox may restrict, or remove, your mods for any reason.
  7. Please note that other rules - specific to a particular game or studio- may also apply to mods based on Paradox games. For more information about Paradox Development Studio’s modding guidelines, please visit our forum: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...user-made-mods-and-edits-of-pds-games.708039/.

Also, it was super easy to find, but in case anyone else is having trouble: https://legal.paradoxplaza.com/terms-of-use
 
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prismaticmarcus

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So wait. No one actually knows WHY they took the mod down? It's just the assumption that it's SJW censorship? Or did I miss something or someone who ACTUALLY knows why the post/mod was removed?
if someone knows they probably won't announce it here anyway. it's a fair enough topic of conversation, though. i don't mean 'why was this taken down?' but 'what's unacceptable?'
 
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prismaticmarcus

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Also, not sure where you are finding any ambiguity? These rules seem pretty clear.

6. Mods
We at Paradox love user modding and mods to our games and want to encourage you to mod. We see benefits for everyone involved. The EULA and these Terms of Use outlines under which conditions you may create and distribute mods of Paradox’s games. Paradox is not always the owner of the intellectual property into a game which it publishes, and therefore, Paradox cannot unconditionally allow modding to all games published by us. If you are unsure of which games are affected, please contact support. These Terms of Use applies to all mods, including mods distributed through third party platforms such as Steam Workshop, created by you. 1. Paradox recognizes that you are the owner of the elements of the mod which are your original creative work. However, any elements of the mod which represent, derive from, or is based upon a Game (for example characters, settings, plot, artwork, sound and locations) shall be owned by Paradox, and you agree that all right, title and interest into such shall vest with Paradox.

  1. To create mods, Paradox may make available mod tools to you. Provided that you comply with these Terms of Use and the EULA, and upon your acceptance of the EULA, Paradox grants to you a non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited, revocable right and licence to install, access and use in-game modding tools and any other related tools provided by Paradox to you (including, for example, the Clauzewitz® Maya Exporter) to create and distribute mods.
  2. Any use of the mod tools, and creation and publication of mods, is for strictly non-commercial purposes only, and you may not require any fees but may receive voluntary donations for your creation, publication and/or use of mods
  3. By publishing a mod based on a Paradox game, you hereby grant to Paradox and its affiliates a non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable and perpetual right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, publicly display and publicly perform your mod. Explicitly, this license shall include the right to make the mod publicly available through other channels of distribution, and the right to adapt a mod to be compatible with other platforms. This license shall survive termination of the EULA.
  4. Your mod may not contain any material which (i) infringes any applicable law; (ii) resemblance any recognisable third party brand, character or personality, including but not limited to any trademarks or logos except for those assets provided by Paradox; (iii) any third party assets, from other games published by Paradox and its affiliates or any other third party; (iv) any viruses, Trojan horses, worms, corrupted files, or any other similar software or program; (v) is obscene, indecent, pornographic, offensive, defamatory, fraudulent, threatening, hate speech, liable to incite racial hatred, acts of terrorism or violence, menacing, blasphemous or contains nudity or gratuitous or graphic violence; (vii) has been posted or published in breach of a third party’s rights (including intellectual property rights); (viii) brings, or is likely to bring, Paradox, its affiliates, licensees or licensors into disrepute; or (ix) in relation to mods related for example to the game Cities: Skylines®, make reference to any organisation whose principal business includes the sale of tobacco or tobacco related products, or firearms.
  5. You represent and warrant that any mod created by you, and your grant of rights in such mod, does not violate any applicable contract, law or regulation, and that the mod is your original creative work and does not infringe any third party´s intellectual property rights or any other rights. Paradox specifically disclaims any liability with regard to any mod, and you agree to indemnify, defend and hold Paradox and its, affiliates, licensees, contractors, officers, directors, employees and agents harmless from any damages, losses, cost and expenses (including attorneys’ fees) arising directly or indirectly from any acts and omissions associated with the use of any Mod which you create and publish.
  6. We reserve the right to suspend access to, or terminate your licence for, any mods published by you or modding tools provided by us. Paradox is under no obligation to use, distribute or continue to distribute mods, and you understand that Paradox may restrict, or remove, your mods for any reason.
  7. Please note that other rules - specific to a particular game or studio- may also apply to mods based on Paradox games. For more information about Paradox Development Studio’s modding guidelines, please visit our forum: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...user-made-mods-and-edits-of-pds-games.708039/.

Also, it was super easy to find, but in case anyone else is having trouble: https://legal.paradoxplaza.com/terms-of-use
oh i was looking for that but couldn't find it.
 

Madfrancis

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if someone knows they probably won't announce it here anyway. it's a fair enough topic of conversation, though. i don't mean 'why was this taken down?' but 'what's unacceptable?'
I didn't say one way or another whether I thought this conversation was 'fair'.

This post started as someone saying that paradox should be clear about their rules.

I am a bit surprised at the sense of ambiguity the OP find in regards to the rules. The mod/post/whatever broke one of these very clear rules. Since no no one knows which rule it seems a little unfair/pointless to paint Paradox as an evil Big Brother or to assign moral or value judgements without enough information to reasonably do so.

Why I think they might have done it? They're just a company trying to protect its properties/investors/employees/communities in the manner they see fit, in accordance with the law and their moral principles.
 
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I didn't say one way or another whether I thought this conversation was 'fair'.

This post started as someone saying that paradox should be clear about their rules.

I am a bit surprised at the sense of ambiguity the OP find in regards to the rules. The mod/post/whatever broke one of these very clear rules. Since no no one knows which rule it seems a little unfair/pointless to paint Paradox as an evil Big Brother or to assign moral or value judgements without enough information to reasonably do so.

Why I think they did it? They're just a company trying to protect their properties/investors/employees/communities in the manner they see fit, in accordance with the law.
where were you when we needed you? ;) but it was good to learn about swedish administrative law in the meantime
 
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I'm not sure where you are finding any ambiguity? These rules seem pretty clear.

6. Mods
We at Paradox love user modding and mods to our games and want to encourage you to mod. We see benefits for everyone involved. The EULA and these Terms of Use outlines under which conditions you may create and distribute mods of Paradox’s games. Paradox is not always the owner of the intellectual property into a game which it publishes, and therefore, Paradox cannot unconditionally allow modding to all games published by us. If you are unsure of which games are affected, please contact support. These Terms of Use applies to all mods, including mods distributed through third party platforms such as Steam Workshop, created by you. 1. Paradox recognizes that you are the owner of the elements of the mod which are your original creative work. However, any elements of the mod which represent, derive from, or is based upon a Game (for example characters, settings, plot, artwork, sound and locations) shall be owned by Paradox, and you agree that all right, title and interest into such shall vest with Paradox.

  1. To create mods, Paradox may make available mod tools to you. Provided that you comply with these Terms of Use and the EULA, and upon your acceptance of the EULA, Paradox grants to you a non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited, revocable right and licence to install, access and use in-game modding tools and any other related tools provided by Paradox to you (including, for example, the Clauzewitz® Maya Exporter) to create and distribute mods.
  2. Any use of the mod tools, and creation and publication of mods, is for strictly non-commercial purposes only, and you may not require any fees but may receive voluntary donations for your creation, publication and/or use of mods
  3. By publishing a mod based on a Paradox game, you hereby grant to Paradox and its affiliates a non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable and perpetual right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, publicly display and publicly perform your mod. Explicitly, this license shall include the right to make the mod publicly available through other channels of distribution, and the right to adapt a mod to be compatible with other platforms. This license shall survive termination of the EULA.
  4. Your mod may not contain any material which (i) infringes any applicable law; (ii) resemblance any recognisable third party brand, character or personality, including but not limited to any trademarks or logos except for those assets provided by Paradox; (iii) any third party assets, from other games published by Paradox and its affiliates or any other third party; (iv) any viruses, Trojan horses, worms, corrupted files, or any other similar software or program; (v) is obscene, indecent, pornographic, offensive, defamatory, fraudulent, threatening, hate speech, liable to incite racial hatred, acts of terrorism or violence, menacing, blasphemous or contains nudity or gratuitous or graphic violence; (vii) has been posted or published in breach of a third party’s rights (including intellectual property rights); (viii) brings, or is likely to bring, Paradox, its affiliates, licensees or licensors into disrepute; or (ix) in relation to mods related for example to the game Cities: Skylines®, make reference to any organisation whose principal business includes the sale of tobacco or tobacco related products, or firearms.
  5. You represent and warrant that any mod created by you, and your grant of rights in such mod, does not violate any applicable contract, law or regulation, and that the mod is your original creative work and does not infringe any third party´s intellectual property rights or any other rights. Paradox specifically disclaims any liability with regard to any mod, and you agree to indemnify, defend and hold Paradox and its, affiliates, licensees, contractors, officers, directors, employees and agents harmless from any damages, losses, cost and expenses (including attorneys’ fees) arising directly or indirectly from any acts and omissions associated with the use of any Mod which you create and publish.
  6. We reserve the right to suspend access to, or terminate your licence for, any mods published by you or modding tools provided by us. Paradox is under no obligation to use, distribute or continue to distribute mods, and you understand that Paradox may restrict, or remove, your mods for any reason.
  7. Please note that other rules - specific to a particular game or studio- may also apply to mods based on Paradox games. For more information about Paradox Development Studio’s modding guidelines, please visit our forum: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...user-made-mods-and-edits-of-pds-games.708039/.

Also, it was super easy to find, but in case anyone else is having trouble: https://legal.paradoxplaza.com/terms-of-use
Ive read those rules before making the thread. Show me where in point 4 we can see why the thread was deleted? Or do you take for granted that asking how change probability of homossexuality is considered hate speech?
 
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where were you when we needed you? ;) but it was good to learn about swedish administrative law in the meantime
You will be learning much more. I put your name on my distribution list and after each administrative and constitutional law reading I do you will be receiving a detailed summary.

(Poe's law advisory: Don't worry, that's a joke, not a threat. ;) )
 
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Ive read those rules before making the thread. Show me where in point 4 we can see why the thread was deleted? Or do you take for granted that asking how change probability of homossexuality is considered hate speech?
How the heck should I know why they took it down?

Counter: Show me anywhere where it says that they are under any obligation to inform you, me or anyone why they took something down.

What is clear is we don't have enough evidence to make the assumptions you are making. You literally have NO idea why they actually removed the post. Unless I missed it. Something posted broke one of their rules, maybe. Or not. They removed it, for a reason, probably. Or not. That's the actual evidence we're working with.

My official position is to not take anything for granted, including that they took the post down for the reasons you are claiming.

But specifically, I was trying to speak to your original post:
"There should be a sticky thread on acceptable features of CK3 mods"
 
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You will be learning much more. I put your name on my distribution list and after each administrative and constitutional law reading I do you will be receiving a detailed summary.

(Poe's law advisory: Don't worry, that's a joke, not a threat. ;) )
3. omg really?
 
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Ive read those rules before making the thread. Show me where in point 4 we can see why the thread was deleted? Or do you take for granted that asking how change probability of homossexuality is considered hate speech?
as the rules are important to you i'll note, once again, that public discussion of forum mod actions is against the forum rules. we've all been very lucky that this thread hasn't been closed off already.
 
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Counter: Show me anywhere where it says that they are under any obligation to inform you, me or anyone why they took something down.
What does that have to do with anything? Why do people keep bringing up legal arguments in this thread? Of course they're under no obligation. We're just asking what they consider acceptable and to be more transparent rather than just deleting stuff. Did you really think I was going to take them to court or something over deleting a thread or a Steam Workshop mod?
 
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It's also irrelevant to talk about the legality of removing mods from the Steam Workshop when the discussion is about whether or not it's right to remove a mod because it makes Rurik straight or homosexuality less common. I don't see anyone claiming that Paradox can't do it, but rather questioning if they should have.
Where did I say anything about what paradox should or should not do? Try to avoid strawman arguments please. I only commented on the tired "freedom of speech" nonsense that pops up in all these type of threads about why usergenerated content was removed.

Discussing if it was right or not is pretty pointless as we only have vague references to a mod that maybe did something with the chance to make a character homosexual. We dont know why it was removed or even if it was removed. We dont know exactly what it did and we certainly dont know how it was presented on the workshop.
 
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Googleman to the rescue!


Did you actually read those? Show me where they draw the line on mod content. It's arbitrary and we were asking for an explanation over an arbitration.

Discussing if it was right or not is pretty pointless as we only have vague references to a mod that maybe did something with the chance to make a character homosexual. We dont know why it was removed or even if it was removed. We dont know exactly what it did and we certainly dont know how it was presented on the workshop.
We do know that the thread asking why it was deleted and what was wrong with it had zero offensive content and was straight up deleted with no explanation.

Rather than just defaulting to thinking Paradox is in the right and that nothing was wrong with the removal, consider that in the past a user complained about Paradox flagging their negative review as abusive and it got even Groogy to look into it because doing so was outside of their policy.

Where did I say anything about what paradox should or should not do? Try to avoid strawman arguments please.
You didn't -- I did. And other in this thread did. The reason this thread exists is asking that same question. That's why it's irrelevant to say that it's legal for Paradox to do so. I don't think I need to explain why just because something is legal doesn't mean a person or company should do it.
 
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