There needs to be something more you can spend Consumer Goods on

[Bezborg]

(At least you can distribute luxuries)

May I just say how much I dislike the micro "press for a limited effect" buttons in the game...

Why can't the distribute luxuries be like an edict, and it becomes a permanent effect with an upkeep.

It's so non-sensical and random, like some planetary decisions are permanent until you cancel them, like the anti-crime campaign, and some are one-click limited. It's all so random and inconsistent

 

[Tetranet]

Last I checked Ringworlds still do not have industrial specializations and you are forced to produce both alloys and consumer goods. Oversight or not they need to be enabled for Industrial Segments.

 

[Incompetent]

Use the appropriate Colony Specialization to shift jobs between Alloy and Consumer Good production.

While this is clearly the right answer as the game currently is, the OP does highlight a weakness of the current setup of industrial districts: they are generally unwieldy and inefficent anywhere except a Forge World or a Factory World. This has several consequences:

1. The AI, and also players who haven't got the hang of specialized planets, can end up in a bit of a mess with regards to alloys vs CGs. The AI especially can spiral out of control with too many Artisans+Metallurgists (taking too many jobs and killing its mineral income) when it only actually needs more of one and not the other. (If the answer is "tell the AI to make specialized Forge/Factory Worlds", bear in mind that choosing the correct number and location of specialized colonies takes a lot more foresight, especially when most AIs won't have that many planets in the first place, and are always at risk of losing some to war.)

2. Managing the CG+alloy production of the capital is quite annoying (can be a factor especially early in the game and for certain origins). More generally, if you don't have many colonies, it's inconvenient that aside from shifting industrial policy, you can't make small adjustments to alloys versus CGs: each colony is basically all one or the other, or 50/50 inefficiently.

On the other hand, the advantages of having combined alloy/CG districts:

1. Less UI clutter. I don't think this is such a big issue at the moment, but it could incur a cost for the devs if they want to increase the total number of district types available later.

2. You can flip between alloy and CG production quite cheaply, by flipping specialization and maybe rebuilding the bonus building. This combines with the policy option of civilian/mixed/militarized economy, so it's only interesting if for some reason, changing policy isn't a suitable response to changes in demand.

With alloys, demand is very spiky, and there are certainly situations where you suddenly want a lot of alloys: war, or a new level of starbase becomes available, or you're about to build a megastructure. The situations where you'd suddenly need a lot more or fewer CGs, though, are a bit more dubious. Early on, colony ships, but then we run into the issue with lack of capital specialization. Researcher spam generally takes a while to build up to, and CGs are only a minor part of the cost (a larger part being simply the labour you have pulled out of other jobs to become Researchers). You could make a big change in living standards, but how often do you do this per game? Finally there's switching trade policies, which can change your demand for Artisans by quite a bit, but that also requires rebalancing your energy production, and flipping the Artisans to Metallurgists (or vice versa) isn't necessarily something you want to do at the same time.

Overall, there are pros and cons, but I think there's a reasonable case for splitting alloy and CG districts to simplify the game, since the two resources are quite dissimilar in what they are for, and especially it would help the AI out.

 

[klopkr]

May I just say how much I dislike the micro "press for a limited effect" buttons in the game...

Why can't the distribute luxuries be like an edict, and it becomes a permanent effect with an upkeep.

It's so non-sensical and random, like some planetary decisions are permanent until you cancel them, like the anti-crime campaign, and some are one-click limited. It's all so random and inconsistent

You know what 'dump all this crap' button feels good to me? It only works rarely or when you don't care anymore but colony automations resource dump feels like 'hey at least somewhere I won't look something will happen'.

Your post made me think maybe those planetary decision should be something like that. Maybe Planetary decisions could be permanent bonuses or a special bonus that only comes available in cycles. They could be based on planetary features to make the available events varied. You would then fund them on a planet or sector basis and dump in your resources into a 'culture' or 'events' type fund which will then spend them to have festivals across certain worlds or distribute luxury goods or show off an artifact exhibit.

It could also be a way to have a bit more unique life on your planets as different events happen. It could even have it's own little art screen to show the current ongoing event you funded.

 

[Franton]

May I just say how much I dislike the micro "press for a limited effect" buttons in the game...

Why can't the distribute luxuries be like an edict, and it becomes a permanent effect with an upkeep.

It's so non-sensical and random, like some planetary decisions are permanent until you cancel them, like the anti-crime campaign, and some are one-click limited. It's all so random and inconsistent

I totally agree. Everything should just be an on/off switch with a fixed cost per month. Effects that currently change durations up (or down?) from a standard base length of 10 years or whatever should instead simply adjust the cost.

As a side effect, that would fix the currently existing loophole that you can simply disable all bureaurat jobs temporarily until you purchase an edict, because the increase in cost is only accounted for at the exact point in time when you do the purchase. (same for when you're about to finish a research project: if you have researched 2000 ponts for a tech requireing a base cost that high, you only need to activate your bureaucrats at that point, for one day, and the tech will be completed; then you can deactivate your bureaucrats again). With a monthly cost, that wouldn't be possible.

P.S.: making everything an on/off switch would also eliminate the minimum durations of (typically) 10 years or so. But I never saw the reason fo this limitation to start with. Same for policies, living standards and stuff: why am I forced to stick with each change for at least 10 years? It doesn't make any sense, and needlessly introduces more micro because if you only want to change something for a short time you need to remember when the minimum duration runs out, and that is very easy to forget! I would very much appreciate if I could change any setting at the exact moment when I see the need to change them, rather than being forced to come back in 7 years and 5 months because I happened to have changed the same setting two and a half years ago!

 

[Franton]

1. The AI, and also players who haven't got the hang of specialized planets, can end up in a bit of a mess with regards to alloys vs CGs. The AI especially can spiral out of control with too many Artisans+Metallurgists (taking too many jobs and killing its mineral income) when it only actually needs more of one and not the other. (If the answer is "tell the AI to make specialized Forge/Factory Worlds", bear in mind that choosing the correct number and location of specialized colonies takes a lot more foresight, especially when most AIs won't have that many planets in the first place, and are always at risk of losing some to war.)

I don't think that is a big problem though. In the early game just adding a CG or alloy building on a couple of planets is enough to fine-tune your needs. You won't even need any industrial districts for some time. unless you're trying to rush your fleet (and maybe it's a good thing that this is now harder as long as you haven't colonized a planet or two)

Overall, there are pros and cons, but I think there's a reasonable case for splitting alloy and CG districts to simplify the game, since the two resources are quite dissimilar in what they are for, and especially it would help the AI out.

And don't forget that ECUs still use separate districts for Alloys and CGs. the split is still in the game! I see no good reason to use multiple different systems; either change ECUs, or use Alloy + CG districts everywhere.

 

[DeanTheDull]

And don't forget that ECUs still use separate districts for Alloys and CGs. the split is still in the game! I see no good reason to use multiple different systems; either change ECUs, or use Alloy + CG districts everywhere.

Different systems exist for different parts of the game when there are different needs.

In the early game, you have incentives to swap between CG and alloy production. You need to build up CG for colony ships, but when the colonization phase is over there's little use for that CG overproduction and you swap for alloys, or you swap from alloys to CG if you manage a major conquest and now suddenly have much higher CG needs from the new pops/captured specialist jobs. The planetary designation balance- from pure alloys, to CG, to an advantageous split- support the need for early-game flexiblity. The designations themselves are more valuable because mineral efficiency is at a premium at the early game, which ties with the need for flexibility in what those minerals go to instead of paying major down payments for entirely seperate districts.

By the time an Ecu is obtainable, your need for flexibility prioritization is over, and you can be expected to plan accordingly for a more powerful but more rigid mechanic system. Mineral efficiency and strategic flexibility are no longer priorities, and don't match the theme of the Ecu as a dedicated and planned planet as opposed to the early-game dynamism.

 

[gja102]

Consumer Goods are in the same spot Food is in. It's not really a resource, it's more like upkeep. You just need "enough", not more.

That's alright but it would probably be more interesting if there was something to spend a surplus on. (At least you can distribute luxuries)

Agreed. I think there are a couple of possible solutions to the issue:

1) Make inter-empire trading easier - you should be able to use your food / CG surplus in international trade. Going through the market is inefficient, and setting up trade deals with other empires requires a lot of micromanagement. If economic specialisation and imports / exports were made more user-friendly it would improve the diplomatic game as well - you might hate your slaver neighbour, but you might turn a blind eye if you also rely on his cheap, cheap food imports...

2) Rework the economic use of crystals / motes / gases - rather than generating all three of these with minerals, at least some of them could be generated by other means. Personally I would change the three specialised economic resources to Electronics (physics tech), Pharmaceuticals (society) and Machinery (engineering).

Pharmaceuticals (or maybe Biogel if you want a more generic sci-fi term) would be produced by food. This would also give empires something to specialise in, if inter-empire trading was encouraged. You could keep the naturally-occurring crystals / motes / gases for high tier weapons, but incorporating food or CG into the economy production chain would make them more interesting than simple 'upkeep' resources.

 

[GOLANX]

Agreed. I think there are a couple of possible solutions to the issue:

1) Make inter-empire trading easier - you should be able to use your food / CG surplus in international trade. Going through the market is inefficient, and setting up trade deals with other empires requires a lot of micromanagement. If economic specialisation and imports / exports were made more user-friendly it would improve the diplomatic game as well - you might hate your slaver neighbour, but you might turn a blind eye if you also rely on his cheap, cheap food imports...

2) Rework the economic use of crystals / motes / gases - rather than generating all three of these with minerals, at least some of them could be generated by other means. Personally I would change the three specialised economic resources to Electronics (physics tech), Pharmaceuticals (society) and Machinery (engineering).

Pharmaceuticals (or maybe Biogel if you want a more generic sci-fi term) would be produced by food. This would also give empires something to specialise in, if inter-empire trading was encouraged. You could keep the naturally-occurring crystals / motes / gases for high tier weapons, but incorporating food or CG into the economy production chain would make them more interesting than simple 'upkeep' resources.

I'm still workshoping this idea in my head but I'd rather replace Crystal/Motes/Gasses costs with consumer goods for upgrading buildings. It would be a nice sink for CGs and take the burden off of tall empires and the small amount of jobs involved with making those rare resources. I shouldn't need all of those resources with every empire build, I should be building around the resources I have access to more than relying on them as just another box to tick.

 

[thedarkendstar]

I'm still workshoping this idea in my head but I'd rather replace Crystal/Motes/Gasses costs with consumer goods for upgrading buildings. It would be a nice sink for CGs and take the burden off of tall empires and the small amount of jobs involved with making those rare resources. I shouldn't need all of those resources with every empire build, I should be building around the resources I have access to more than relying on them as just another box to tick.

Tbh you never get enough access to those resources anyways im in every game I play though im eventually ether importing dozens of creating parts of planets dedicated to producing synthetic versions of them have CGs being converted into them would be a nice resource sink tho.

 

[Bezborg]

I'm still workshoping this idea in my head but I'd rather replace Crystal/Motes/Gasses costs with consumer goods for upgrading buildings. It would be a nice sink for CGs and take the burden off of tall empires and the small amount of jobs involved with making those rare resources. I shouldn't need all of those resources with every empire build, I should be building around the resources I have access to more than relying on them as just another box to tick.

Actually you hit a particular nail on the head here.. the need for so many buildings that only give 1 or 2 jobs, and one or 2 rare resources.

They should look into that.

Personally, I'd put ALL resource producing jobs into districts (have 15 types of them, why not. Seriously, why not), and buildings only as infrastructure projects, limited to one per planet.

Either that or make every builiding able to upgrade infinitely, with scaling costs and with repeatable tech requirements.

WHY NOT.


As for me, I've modded in a refinery arcology for my ecumenopolis (that is purely an industrial facility). It has very high upkeep, so you pay for it dearly, but at least it's a district solution and not taking up VERY limited building slots for +3 gas

 

[Grobb]

Because Alloys are necessary to upgrade ships but Consumer Goods aren't necessary to upgrade buildings, the economy feels backwards, with advanced civilian manufacturing being mere upkeep instead of the engine of growth, while military expansion is where all of the real reinvestment happens. It enforces a military-industrial complex for everyone, since additional civilian manufacturing does nothing.

If Consumer Goods were necessary for more buildings*, you'd actually want to grow your civilian manufacturing so you can get more excess Consumer Goods and reinvest them into everything else, Alloys included. Producing Consumer Goods faster than you can turn them into buildings would even be useful, as there's an entire galaxy out there who are happy to trade for Consumer Goods not just as a way to get out of upkeep, but to actually grow their economy.

*Generally only for upgrades, but should probably also include Tier I buildings which are either very unique/unusual (Planetary Shield Generator, Gene Clinic, Assembly Plants unless you're robots, Clone Vats, Refineries) or are just upgrades to/expansions of other things. (Luxury Residences, Mineral Purification Plants, Alloy Foundries, buildings which just add more Ruler jobs)

 

[DeanTheDull]

Because Alloys are necessary to upgrade ships but Consumer Goods aren't necessary to upgrade buildings, the economy feels backwards, with advanced civilian manufacturing being mere upkeep instead of the engine of growth, while military expansion is where all of the real reinvestment happens. It enforces a military-industrial complex for everyone, since additional civilian manufacturing does nothing.

If Consumer Goods were necessary for more buildings*, you'd actually want to grow your civilian manufacturing so you can get more excess Consumer Goods and reinvest them into everything else, Alloys included. Producing Consumer Goods faster than you can turn them into buildings would even be useful, as there's an entire galaxy out there who are happy to trade for Consumer Goods not just as a way to get out of upkeep, but to actually grow their economy.

*Generally only for upgrades, but should probably also include Tier I buildings which are either very unique/unusual (Planetary Shield Generator, Gene Clinic, Assembly Plants unless you're robots, Clone Vats, Refineries) or are just upgrades to/expansions of other things. (Luxury Residences, Mineral Purification Plants, Alloy Foundries, buildings which just add more Ruler jobs)

That's a thought. Maybe halve the mineral cost, but replace the minerals with a CG component?

 

[methegrate]

I wish I could sink extra consumer goods into some kind of global ether that improves the lives of my pops.

Distribute luxury goods on a galactic scale. When I have extra I just want to sink it all somewhere.

You know what else would be a great sink? Intergalactic aid. I'd love to be able to sink my extra resources into the galactic community if it meant better relation and actual help for the AI I like.

This is sort of how I'd use them. I think CGs should be a diplomatic resource. You should be able to use them to make deals, improve relationships, build alliances, etc.

This would give us a great symmetry between the three advanced resources. Alloys make you stronger by building bigger fleets. Research makes you stronger by building better fleets. CGs make you stronger by building allied fleets. You could have a very real path to power by building a thriving, economy- and trade-focused empire.