There is absolutely ZERO incentive to go Non-Aligned as DoD Yugoslavia

There is absolutely ZERO incentive to go Non-Aligned as DoD Yugoslavia

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Shinkuro Yukinari

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There are no drawbacks to going Communist as Yugoslavia, which would be very historically inaccurate
hoi4_4.png

In only one year I can easily get rid of the three crippling modifiers, and with one more focus I get rid of the General Staff problem.
hoi4_5.png

Going Non-Aligned, it will take me almost two years, and even then I have to suffer bad modifiers or even release a puppet within my own country(Banovina Hrvatska)

There are two sides to this issue, Game Balance and Historical Accuracy

Game Balance:
You have Germans, Hungarians and Italians breathing down your neck, and your only relevant ally is USSR. You have it bad already. Choose between solid allies(or ally, to be realistic, Allies have their own business to deal with), or remove the modifiers more quickly, but be surrounded by enemies
In that sense, this is fair

Historical Accuracy
Ethnic groups are angry because of a Serb-Centric Monarchy calling all the shots. Wouldn't influential Serbs be angry if a communist comes along and removes their privileges?
In that sense, this is absurd

I have two proposals
Proposal #1
Serb-Related temporary modifier

Much like crushing the Ustaša costs precious PP and going for Greater Yugoslavia makes you spend even more of it, I propose a negative modifier, possibly military related, given how the General Staff, as Serb as it is, would be aggravated at this change of leadership.
As a Serbian history enthusiast, the possibility of Draža Mihajlović accepting socialist rule and being chief of the land forces with no problems whatsoever makes me cringe.

Proposal #2
Great Purge event chain, much like USSRs

After WW2, influential nationalists and collaborators were hunted down by the new Socialist government, trialed, and most often executed.
Draža Mihajlović and Milan Nedić being the most notable.
Once the communists take over in Yugoslavia, you get a choice. Purge some Serbs from the higher positions, suffer some negative modifiers, or Civil War. The makers have USSR's chain as a base, so they can make it happen for 1.5 without much issue or analysis, given that most purge targets are obvious.

I don't see this being a massive problem to code, given how most of it is simple modifiers, and Serbia and Montenegro already exist as Cores for the Civil War.

Thank you for reading, I would love to hear your opinions on this
 

Theodorian

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There is no incentive for any nation to go Non-Aligned besides.. roleplay? It's a problem.

In fact, the Allies have NO incentive to keep the peace in the game. If you stop Germany at the Rhineland or at Munich you'll win 80% of the time.
 

Landsturmamrika

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I waited too long to choose a faction in Yugoslavia as my game last night. I would highly recommend not neglecting this. I really like this suggestion list personally.
 

Sir Garnet

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There is no incentive for any nation to go Non-Aligned besides.. roleplay? It's a problem.
Am I mistaken that in Hungary I needed to go non-aligned to get King Otto - a eral Hapsburg and use a monarchist advisor to build unity?
 

Edgar Harford

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Am I mistaken that in Hungary I needed to go non-aligned to get King Otto - a eral Hapsburg and use a monarchist advisor to build unity?
Thing is, while you do require being non-aligned to get the Habsburgs into power and subsequently create Austria Hungary, there is no incentive otherwise to stay so.

In my game, it was wise to play Austria-Hungary like I would Romania, flip flopping all over the ideological spectrum to fit my strategic goals.
 

smederevo991

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I have two proposals
Proposal #1
Serb-Related temporary modifier

Much like crushing the Ustaša costs precious PP and going for Greater Yugoslavia makes you spend even more of it, I propose a negative modifier, possibly military related, given how the General Staff, as Serb as it is, would be aggravated at this change of leadership.
As a Serbian history enthusiast, the possibility of Draža Mihajlović accepting socialist rule and being chief of the land forces with no problems whatsoever makes me cringe.

Proposal #2
Great Purge event chain, much like USSRs

After WW2, influential nationalists and collaborators were hunted down by the new Socialist government, trialed, and most often executed.
Draža Mihajlović and Milan Nedić being the most notable.
Once the communists take over in Yugoslavia, you get a choice. Purge some Serbs from the higher positions, suffer some negative modifiers, or Civil War. The makers have USSR's chain as a base, so they can make it happen for 1.5 without much issue or analysis, given that most purge targets are obvious.
I agree completely, I would just add that Yugoslavia becoming communist in the '30s would not just angry the Serbian general staff, but most of the Serbian population as well, which was very conservative. In fact, historically there was a bloody yugoslav civil war between the monarchists and communists during WW2, and the Serbian territories were mostly monarchist strongholds until very late in the war.

So in game terms, id say there needs to be a modifier with a huge impact on national unity if Yugoslavia turns communist, the same way there's the Croatian one at the start of the game. But that would require a substantial facelift to the Yugoslav focus tree (which is very chaotic and illogical, see some of my responses in other threads about this DLC), and I'm not sure we're having any of that anytime soon...
 

gdj

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Note that going the communist path makes it harder to get the additional manpower in the focus tree. The all-yugoslav regiments are unavailable if you take that path, and the local militias can only be gained if you don´t accept the mutual economic aid from the soviets. Being non-aligned on the other hand allows you to have both without sacrificing anything at all.
 

Shinkuro Yukinari

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Note that going the communist path makes it harder to get the additional manpower in the focus tree. The all-yugoslav regiments are unavailable if you take that path, and the local militias can only be gained if you don´t accept the mutual economic aid from the soviets. Being non-aligned on the other hand allows you to have both without sacrificing anything at all.
The cons still outweigh the pros massively:
hoi4_9.png

5% is too little for you to matter, perhaps if you are doing a MP game and you wanna boost USSR, but you won't get much from this, given your small amount of factories
hoi4_10.png

I'd much rather go for more support for communist, given that 95% of the time you wanna annex Bulgaria ASAP, and maybe Romania too, you do get a border with USSR that way
hoi4_11.png

Add in the 2% from Local militia, a cherry on top
hoi4_12.png

Which is double the bonus you get from All-Yugoslavian Regiments. Not worth slugging through so many terrible maluses for 1% recruitable population

If you really want that 1%, go for it.
I'll stick with Mass Assault's 5%
 

Shinkuro Yukinari

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I agree completely, I would just add that Yugoslavia becoming communist in the '30s would not just angry the Serbian general staff, but most of the Serbian population as well, which was very conservative. In fact, historically there was a bloody yugoslav civil war between the monarchists and communists during WW2, and the Serbian territories were mostly monarchist strongholds until very late in the war.

So in game terms, id say there needs to be a modifier with a huge impact on national unity if Yugoslavia turns communist, the same way there's the Croatian one at the start of the game. But that would require a substantial facelift to the Yugoslav focus tree (which is very chaotic and illogical, see some of my responses in other threads about this DLC), and I'm not sure we're having any of that anytime soon...
The general Serbian population was not so single-minded. The partisans were known for recruiting from all of the ethnic groups, including Serbs, especially in Bosnia under NDH control. I don't think the general populace would mind that much, mostly the influential received privileges
But a demagogue promoting Serb Nationalism which could cause civil war is a possibility. As for the facelift, well a certain mod-maker contacted me about this, a popular mod mind you :D
 

Captured Joe

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This isn't just an issue with Yugoslavia in my opinion, getting Romania communist without the Red Army all over the country should be impossible or at least ignite a civil war.
Let's hope the devs pick your suggestions up.

Also Draza Mihailovic as commander, please?
 

smederevo991

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That wouldn't make too much sense since he was a colonel until 1941. The devs already made enough sloppy choices with Yugoslav leaders and ministers. I mean, somehow in game you can appoint Tito as chief of army in 1936......
 

Prince Ire

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There really is no good reason for non-aligned countries to have so fewer options than fascist, communist, or democratic. Can't increase support for non-aligned, can't cause coups, as far as I can tell can't create puppets, etc.
 

gdj

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There really is no good reason for non-aligned countries to have so fewer options than fascist, communist, or democratic. Can't increase support for non-aligned, can't cause coups, as far as I can tell can't create puppets, etc.
This is not entirely correct. Non-aligned nations can raise coups, unless the target is also non-aligned. Also, they can justify wars once world tension hits 50% against anyone, unlike democracies who can only do that against targets that caused world tension. Generally speaking, non-aligned countries are less versatile, but also often easier to play than others. A signifacnt factor is that non-aligned countries who justify wars against another non-alined country will ususually not have to deal with great powers suddenly issuing a guarantee against the target. The factions usually don´t care if 2 non-aligned countries fight each other, unless either of them was part of a faction before the war justification started.