There is a manual for VV, found in FAQ (was: we need a manual for VV)

[kierun]

Well, we kinda made a stupid decision late in the development cycle.

I went.. well, we've explained the game in the development diaries, use the final budget on improving the AI instead..

Sorry guys. Next time we'll make manuals for download titles.

I for one, much rather you'd spend more time on the AI and game play than on a manual as long as the new features have tooltips. The development diaries were great.

Maybe a few AAR(s) showing different features could have been done by some of the beta team? Would those who did not get a manual be happy with that?

 

[Asmodeous]

Well, we kinda made a stupid decision late in the development cycle.

I went.. well, we've explained the game in the development diaries, use the final budget on improving the AI instead..

Sorry guys. Next time we'll make manuals for download titles.

Personally, I think a simple readme.rtf with a brief breakdown of the changes would be sufficient since you do go into detail on the dev diaries. Not all of us read them because some of us are lazy or busy playing games, heehehe.

Me.

 

[Pode]

Well, we kinda made a stupid decision late in the development cycle.

I went.. well, we've explained the game in the development diaries, use the final budget on improving the AI instead..

Sorry guys. Next time we'll make manuals for download titles.

Sorry, but if that's the response then next time I'll buy the product. Hell, just spend 10 minutes bundling the existing dev diaries into a single unorganized PDF, it's better than nothing and what you make off my purchase alone should cover the labor cost. It's the symbolism, man. You made a mistake, fine. Happpens to everyone. What you need to do now is make at least a token effort to make it good. Patching the expansion and still not having a manual is just insulting.

 

[blwizard]

Well, we kinda made a stupid decision late in the development cycle.

I went.. well, we've explained the game in the development diaries, use the final budget on improving the AI instead..

Sorry guys. Next time we'll make manuals for download titles.

Good to hear, thanks!

 

[Powerslave]

Well, we kinda made a stupid decision late in the development cycle.

I went.. well, we've explained the game in the development diaries, use the final budget on improving the AI instead..

Sorry guys. Next time we'll make manuals for download titles.

I don't think that was a stupid decision at all. However if the dev diaries explaines the game then perhaps you should have included them in the release as a kind of manual? Just a thought.

 

[rcorporon]

Well, we kinda made a stupid decision late in the development cycle.

I went.. well, we've explained the game in the development diaries, use the final budget on improving the AI instead..

Sorry guys. Next time we'll make manuals for download titles.

Not trying to be a jerk, but I hardly think that creating a simple .txt or .pdf that explains the new features, and how they work, would have eaten up a significant part of a budget.

 

[unmerged(90249)]

Not trying to be a jerk, but I hardly think that creating a simple .txt or .pdf that explains the new features, and how they work, would have eaten up a significant part of a budget.

It may, basically in the IT industry (not only the gaming but the whole industry) more money, time and energy are spend (wasted?) to explain things rather than realize them.

Exemple, I was tasked to build a system doing paralel processing with Perl 3 month ago. The system is done, working, tested , ready to be in production since 2 month, 2 month that I have wasted (and it will also waste the whole of january) simply trying to explain it to my manager. He is thai, I am french, both we speak little english; he pretend to be an IT manager, but have little expertise appart the command line and to be a fast typer ... So yes documentations can be a bitch and also a black hole for ressources that could be used for something else more crucial.

I am certainly sick, in 10 mn I agreed with 2 statements of Johann.lol@me

 

[Lionel-Richie]

Exemple, I was tasked to build a system doing paralel processing with Perl 3 month ago. The system is done, working, tested , ready to be in production since 2 month, 2 month that I have wasted (and it will also waste the whole of january) simply trying to explain it to my manager. He is thai, I am french, both we speak little english; he pretend to be an IT manager, but have little expertise appart the command line and to be a fast typer ... So yes documentations can be a bitch and also a black hole for ressources that could be used for something else more crucial.

I'm not sure you can really compare a brief text document explaining some video game feature changes to trying to cross a language barrier while explaining complicated technical jargon.

 

[Bertouch]

I went.. well, we've explained the game in the development diaries, use the final budget on improving the AI instead..

Nice bait-and-switch, Johan. But I think most people here realize two things:

1) Nobody is asking for you to give up the budget spent on anything.

2) You were being asked to have somebody involved in the game put about 2-3 hours into a text document a few pages long explaining exactly what the changes are.

Yeah, lots of benefits to the AI if they don't make that text document, right? I'm really embarrassed for you, taking that line of argument. You're normally a classier act than that.

 

[unmerged(94657)]

I'm not sure you can really compare a brief text document explaining some video game feature changes to trying to cross a language barrier while explaining complicated technical jargon.

QFT. I thought EricB's post was disingenuous at best. Look, I'm am about as far from a techie a possible, so I don't know how tech companies work. But many in this thread have emphasized that we were not asking for a full blown manual, merely a .pdf or readme that would have explained the new features in somewhat more detail than the mere list of new features that was released. (And I really take issue with the posters who suggest that the dev diaries are an adequate substitute.) We are not exactly asking for a 300-page, spiral bound Dominions 3 manual or a strategy guide--just a few pages explaining what the various new features do, esspecially the new additions to the UI. I really have a hard time seeing this as a budget buster.

BTW, I greatly appreciate Johan's mea culpa. While I have no problem dumping on the big gaming publishers, I always feel a bit guilty in criticizing companies like PI and Stardock, who put out great non-dumbed down games and seem to have gamers' best interests in mind. Nonetheless, I would respectfully request that Johan not wait until "next time", but put out some sort of brief manual for VV.

 

[candelarius]

Nice bait-and-switch, Johan. But I think most people here realize two things:

1) Nobody is asking for you to give up the budget spent on anything.

2) You were being asked to have somebody involved in the game put about 2-3 hours into a text document a few pages long explaining exactly what the changes are.

Yeah, lots of benefits to the AI if they don't make that text document, right? I'm really embarrassed for you, taking that line of argument. You're normally a classier act than that.

I agree completely, this is a really poor answer from Johan. It would have been better if he had just said "we didn't feel a manual was necessary" rather than sticking us with we didn't want to waste "AI money" on "manual money". That's a weak argument and utterly transparent. "I'm sorry the seats in the new sedan you purchased hurt your lower back, we figured we'd spend the money on improving crash test results instead of unnecessary comfortable seating"...that sort of argument is intended as a "shut up line" for the paying customers. My answer: There may not be a "next time" if you don't even take the time to give your customers a readme file to explain the new features on the product they just purchased...then again, he did say it was a stupid decision, so, we can't be too mad at him. Still, I don't see why they can't put a PDF together for us and build it into the existing gamersgate download (which would be the right thing to do if they really think their decision was a poor one).

 

[SirGrotius]

The point's already been made. No manual. They're sorry about it. I'm glad you made this thread, because the promise is it won't happen again! Look on the bright side!

 

[Descartes]

I don't see why the game developers should make the manual, it sounds more like community work to me. It requires absolutely no knowledge whatsoever, just a few hours spent on playing the game. I think we should let the game developers do their job. Instead of describing the game they've already made, they could work on improving it.

 

[candelarius]

I don't see why the game developers should make the manual, it sounds more like community work to me. It requires absolutely no knowledge whatsoever, just a few hours spent on playing the game. I think we should let the game developers do their job. Instead of describing the game they've already made, they could work on improving it.

Loyalist! Get him!

 

[SirGrotius]

Loyalist! Get him!

haha!

 

[Descartes]

I've never liked manuals anyway, they spoil the fun

 

[Pode]

I've never liked manuals anyway, they spoil the fun

Some of us find the fun in playing the game rather than in learning it. To each their own.

 

[Descartes]

I usually play the game while learning it

 

[rcorporon]

I don't see why the game developers should make the manual, it sounds more like community work to me. It requires absolutely no knowledge whatsoever, just a few hours spent on playing the game. I think we should let the game developers do their job. Instead of describing the game they've already made, they could work on improving it.

When I start getting a paycheque from Paradox, then I'll consider doing their work for them.

Since when is it the FANS job to produce the proper documentation for software? This is one of the most ridiculous things I've read in a long time.

 

[Aytumious]

I don't see why the game developers should make the manual, it sounds more like community work to me. It requires absolutely no knowledge whatsoever, just a few hours spent on playing the game. I think we should let the game developers do their job. Instead of describing the game they've already made, they could work on improving it.

If its so easy to create a manual then the developer should put one together since most people clearly want some form of documentation.