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candelarius

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I purchased EU:Rome/VV two days ago and I, too, was annoyed and surprised at the lack of a manual. All the previous Paradox games came with manuals...did they just forget to include it? No PDF? No readme? No explanation as to what the changes are, how to use them? The senate feature alone deserves at least a basic explanation of how the difference factions inter-relate and suggestions on how to properly utilize them.

I'm a reasonably intelligent person, I think, and can figure out the game on my own....but I shouldn't have to. That argument could be applied to anything. "Not sure how to bake a pie? Just figure it out on your own if you have any brains, you lazy recipe reader!". :p
 

Asmodeous

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The standard is AGEOD. They update their manual with every patch! :eek:

That's not the standard. The standard is the baseline acceptable level. In which case I would direct one towards Stardock. Every game is bundled with a printed manual, regardless of how necessary it is, and if it is digitally distributed you are supplied with a pdf manual that you can reference and print at your leisure. Patch notes are included with every patch which give a brief breakdown of all changes and for any that alter the gameplay a summation of what those changes entail.

That is the standard.

AGEOD is an example of what all should strive for, but it is not the standard because not all companies have the means to supply that level of support, and should not be expected to. Encouraged to? Yes. Expected to? No.

That would be like saying that Muhammed Ali is the standard for boxing. He's not the standard, he's exceptional.

Me.
 

rcorporon

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As a quick side, how are the games from that AGEOD company... I've never heard of them before, and they look interesting.
 

Jayavarman

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steve58

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While AGEOD has a very good history with previous releases, they are catching a lot of heat from their latest: World War One. Apparently it was rushed to release to meet an "11th hour on Nov 11" deadline. Lots of problems with the game, which (to their credit) they are working 24/7 to address. To make matters worse, the "manual" provided with the game was shall we say...somewhat lacking. It sounds like, given time, more patches, and a real manual, WW1 has the potential to be a great game...
 

unmerged(94657)

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In which case I would direct one towards Stardock. Every game is bundled with a printed manual, regardless of how necessary it is, and if it is digitally distributed you are supplied with a pdf manual that you can reference and print at your leisure. Patch notes are included with every patch which give a brief breakdown of all changes and for any that alter the gameplay a summation of what those changes entail.

I can't let this go without some comment, since I find it odd for Stardock to be praised for its manuals, which are substandard IMO. I am a big fan of Stardock for many reasons--they make great games (particularly in the near dead TBS genre, which is one of my favorites ) and continue to patch them well beyond the call of duty or economic sense. However, if they have one glaring fault, it is manuals. Their manuals, without exception, are awful: extremely incomplete in coverage, opaque, and frustrating. Paradox manuals, even relatively poorer efforts like the Victoria manuals, are far superior. (Although I like Galactic Civilizations II very much, one reason I prefer TBS king CivIV is that the documentation of the latter game makes the exact impact of every decision very transparent, while similar decisions in GCII are more guestimates. CivIV not only has a far better manual, but vastly better ingame documentation, such as rollovers and the Civilopedia, and a far more polished UI.) Finally, it's somewhat ironic for Stardock to be presented as an exemplar in this thread. Their long promised manual for the latest GCII expansion, Twilight of the Arnor, was only recently released, many months after the expansion was released. And it carries on the Stradock tradition--it's an awful manual.

I bought VV on the first day of release and was dismayed to find that there was no manual. Since I generally have a high enough learning curve for Paradox games with manuals, I've pretty much put the game aside unless/until PI produces a manual. I've never worked in the game industry so maybe I'm naive about the effort involved. But I can't think that the effort to produce a .pdf such as the one for NA is so great as to be worth the (admittedly minor) PR hit that PI is taking on this issue.
 
Last edited:

unmerged(100020)

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Adding My Support to Requesting a Manual

I also would like to add my support to the creation of some sort of manual, as it appears much has changed with the application of the VV patch. This manual need not be nearly as detailed as the original, but merely explain the new features, options, and menu choices.

The simulation looks much more interesting, both aesthetically (graphics) and operationally (enhanced features and many apparent new features).

Please consider creating and posting some sort of manual for the VV update.

Any assistance in this matter will be sincerely appreciated here.

Thanks in advance!

Registered Owner
 

telesien

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I must say that the lack of response from PI in this is disturbing to me...
i feel the same. i just hope it is not some kind of omen. paradox was great company with great games and great comunity. the games started to deteriorate and if this will be the same with their customer care, the comunity will soon also perish....
 

Nimic

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i feel the same. i just hope it is not some kind of omen. paradox was great company with great games and great comunity. the games started to deteriorate and if this will be the same with their customer care, the comunity will soon also perish....

I disagree about the games deteriorating. EU3 is one of their very best games. I do agree that I'd like to hear from Paradox.
 

rcorporon

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I think their first response has already been, "We don't care. You'll buy it, anyway." Actions speak louder than words. ;)

Sadly, I think you may be right here.
 

repent

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I played Rome for a few days when it came out before returning to EUIII and have just picked up VV. With a small degree of initiative I am getting used to the changes but life would be one hell of a lot easier with a pdf... even a little short one...
 

unmerged(119342)

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Sadly, I think you may be right here.

The corporate silence is deafening isn't it?

Please don't trot out the "loaded with tooltips" canard. A read.me list of changes and new features is a reasonable minimum for an expansion. A manual would have been lovely.

I chose to play an easy country for my first VV game to avoid the "if I'd only known that before" hindsight misery.

Looking a the number of unhappy posters, I cannot understand why Paradox hasn't at least posted a read.me file in the forums. I think they are waiting for some kind soul to post it for them. The forum community does the beta-testing, patching, tech-support and much more for them.

Paradox seems to think of their games as fire-and-forget missiles. They launch them and expect the forum to provide the internal guidance system.
 

SirGrotius

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The corporate silence is deafening isn't it?

Please don't trot out the "loaded with tooltips" canard. A read.me list of changes and new features is a reasonable minimum for an expansion. A manual would have been lovely.

I chose to play an easy country for my first VV game to avoid the "if I'd only known that before" hindsight misery.

Looking a the number of unhappy posters, I cannot understand why Paradox hasn't at least posted a read.me file in the forums. I think they are waiting for some kind soul to post it for them. The forum community does the beta-testing, patching, tech-support and much more for them.

Paradox seems to think of their games as fire-and-forget missiles. They launch them and expect the forum to provide the internal guidance system.

I love your use of canard!

In all seriousness, I know there hasn't been any response, but if it's any help, I'd take a quick scan of this forum, as there have been quite a few questions raised and answered.
 

Zan Thrax

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Perhaps some kind poster (or demi mod) would start a FAQ page so that we can ask about the parts that we've got individual questions about and read about the stuff that others have been wondering? As I've mentioned before, my questions are mostly interface ones.
 

Johan

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Well, we kinda made a stupid decision late in the development cycle.

I went.. well, we've explained the game in the development diaries, use the final budget on improving the AI instead..

Sorry guys. Next time we'll make manuals for download titles.