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Javaslinger

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arkcheung said:
Can I get a link to this tutorial AAR?

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=378841

Here's how I found it.. I went to the HOI2 AAR forum and looked for the first thread that was started by Ironhead... took 2 minutes...

A manual wouldn't be as necessary if people weren't as lazy...

On the other hand, count this as one of the few times I'm not lazy...
 

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Javaslinger said:
A manual wouldn't be as necessary if people weren't as lazy...

I have to take exception to this. Lazy is when a poster asks a question that is explicitly answered in the manual. I'm a big believer in RTFM (at least when there is an adequate one). Lazy is not requesting a manual in lieu of searching for multiple forum posts that might, or might not, answer your question on new features. Moreover, it is clear that people are not requesting anything elaborate but only a moderately detailed rundown of new features ala EUIII's NA, which should not be that hard for PI to produce.
 

arkcheung

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Javaslinger said:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=378841

Here's how I found it.. I went to the HOI2 AAR forum and looked for the first thread that was started by Ironhead... took 2 minutes...

A manual wouldn't be as necessary if people weren't as lazy...

On the other hand, count this as one of the few times I'm not lazy...

Thanks for the link and do you have a Ricky tutorial AAR link? Well, you know I'm lazy... :D
 

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Javaslinger said:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=378841

Here's how I found it.. I went to the HOI2 AAR forum and looked for the first thread that was started by Ironhead... took 2 minutes...

A manual wouldn't be as necessary if people weren't as lazy...

On the other hand, count this as one of the few times I'm not lazy...

That's not the point. If people weren't lazy, they would learn the programming languages themselves and make wonderful games. If the sun was in fact a giant shining cow, we would have molten gold instead of milk.

But here, in this world, there are things like industry standards that state that software comes with manual. Period. When I pay, I expect certain level of quality, or I don't pay next time. This idea of paid patches that make hollow and unfinished games like Rome at least partially playable still does not appeal to me. There is a huge gap between Rome and other, older Pdox games in terms of quality.
 

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Kamamura said:
That's not the point. If people weren't lazy, they would learn the programming languages themselves and make wonderful games. If the sun was in fact a giant shining cow, we would have molten gold instead of milk.

But here, in this world, there are things like industry standards that state that software comes with manual. Period. When I pay, I expect certain level of quality, or I don't pay next time. This idea of paid patches that make hollow and unfinished games like Rome at least partially playable still does not appeal to me. There is a huge gap between Rome and other, older Pdox games in terms of quality.

Older games? Well, maybe do you mean prehistoric games, maybe you did not notice, but the core of history players that made Paradox ,from the own creator of Europa Universalis who collaborate with them up to the modding community who helped to iron out EU II making a so-so game a huge hit (help that include modification of the .exe ) is now the smallest part of the customers.

Back in 2002, I had the feeling to participate to something ... right now (and that since doomsday) I do feel I am simply a number for the marketing department.

Anyway the kids who buy games do not buy them to improve themself (coding, history research...) but simply to have a proof they are the new king of the mountain, and eventually (mostly in HOI forum) to split to others theirs nationalistic ideas, ideas that are backup by screenshot (Turkey should still rules the Balkan, as proof I annexed all countries there by sep 1937 ....).

The problem, being just another customer basically do not bother me, as long as I got what I was promise ... If I buy a ferrari, I do not expect to have to have to buy a wheel to be able to drive it, I expect to have it delivered with the rest of the car. If not, I will simply not buy a ferrari (but eventually highjack it, and put it in Flame in front of maranello in sign of my digust of the black horse ..lol)
 

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I just got around to picking up VV a few minutes ago and was suprised at the lack - I went to look at it while downloading and saw no manual link on Gamers Gate so I popped by here figuring I could find it posted. Its not an end of the world issue for me - I haven't even booted it up yet, but I'm quite sure I can figure the game out quickly enough - but I will say I was a little suprised not to see it. I don't remember the last game or expansion I got that didn't have a manual... though I can think of a few that the manual wasn't worth the paper to print it or the memory to store the PDF. :D
 
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There seem to be 2 schools of thought here:
1. I'm smart and can figure this out by myself by golly, who needs manuals?
2. I paid for a product that is supposedly an improvement on an existing product, why is there no explanation of how it improves the original and shows me how to take advantage of its' innovations?
I vote in category 2 here. If it was worth making and worth charging good money for, then they darn well could have put out some documentation to clarify/justify the changes. After all, we presumably play these games for pleasure, not for an exercise in research and analysis.
I really like Paradox and its products, don't get me wrong here, but we are not all grogs about all periods and all software. I think Paradox ill serves its consumer base by making them pay for something and then have to flail around trying to figure out how to get the most out of it.
To me, this issue is so self-evident that it boggles the mind that it remains unresolved.
 

Homero

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gunnergoz said:
...I really like Paradox and its products, don't get me wrong here, but we are not all grogs about all periods and all software. I think Paradox ill serves its consumer base by making them pay for something and then have to flail around trying to figure out how to get the most out of it.To me, this issue is so self-evident that it boggles the mind that it remains unresolved.


Good post. Where is the manual, Paradox?
 

rcorporon

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I must say that the lack of response from PI in this is disturbing to me... I haven't really played too much of VV yet, because with an 8 month old son, my gaming time is limited, and I really don't feel like playing around with features to figure them out.
 

Piggy

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Perosnally I like rome, I like it more then EU3 (though I dont have IN yet) but lets be honest. EU: Rome isnt exactly a shining example for paradox. The vanilla version was pretty bland to say the least and had some obvious quircks/bugs. I had stopped playing it.

The expansion pack VV has made it what it should have been in the first place and makes the game 10x better IMO, there's alot of new features in it.

Not all of us followed the DD's... I didnt know there was an expansion untill I happened across it.

The game is far more in-depth now, It should have come with a manual.
 

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Any update on this?
 

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I'm surprised it doesn't come with a Readme.txt file that says "This is a list of changes:".

It doesn't really need a manual so much as it just needs to make people aware of what is new.

Me.
 

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Just to labour the point a little further, a manual would be much appreciated.

Generally i don't read manuals for games, but with paradox i find a hard time seeing how the 'genius' posters on this thread get by without at least referring to one from time to time. I mean what the hell is the difference between cognatic succession and the other types (their names escape me)? I don't see why i should sit around using trial and error when a simple couple of PDF pages would have sufficed for reference. All this and I am only playing with Pontus! I haven't even started trying to work out countries with a senate. Ahh well back to save/reload until one is released.
 

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I'm not minding reading the tooltips for the succession laws; my concerns are more interface related; what are the different filters in the character viewer showing me exactly? How do I get no filters? Another area I'd like to know more about is how to get event windows to pause before spawning four more windows.
 

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I too bang my rattle in my highchair and squall for a manual or even at the least a mere readme.txt. I paid good money and don't feel like pouring through forums, tool tips and practicing the least efficient way of learning, trial and error.:(

I am used to slim documentation for Paradox mega-management games where no manuals could ever possibly bring out all the details and strategy.

However, this is scandalous premeditated deficiency is beyond the pale. Treat the loyal core well and do not take it for granted that we will always accept or tolerate sloppiness.

-25.0 loyalty for Dave in Paradox Land.;)
 

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Just to reiterate, I almost bought VV this weekend until I remembered the lack of a manual / instruction guide / thing. That makes twice I've turned away from this purchase.:mad:
 

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The standard is AGEOD. They update their manual with every patch! :eek: