''There can't be light without darkness'' (an idea stolen from CIV6 )

[BaronNoir]

CIV 6 announced an expansion. Amongst a list of features that seems to have be stolen from EU IV too (coalition, for instance), they have one that is fairly intriguing.

Summarized, both ''golden ages'' and ''dark ages'', with the idea that the apex would be to survive to a dark age, and rise from the ashes figuratively speaking.

IE, in EUIV terms, a golden age could only be triggered by surviving a crisis, a major reform or a taking head-on a coalition or a word power (instead of checking boxes on a list...)

 

[Orkonkel]

We already have disasters to represent internal struggles (dark ages). Unfortunately, they are rather toothless for the players (and most great power AI).

 

[BaronNoir]

I would dare say that Stellaris style crisis (the only that come to mind for EUIV would be the French Revolution-as you say, even the Wars of Religion, including the Thirty Years War expy, are quite civil) would be welcome in EU IV. What I really like in the concept of this expansion is to tie dark ages to golden ages.

 

[Zalmoxis]

Id rather the revolution (In France or otherwise) be the EU4 late-game crisis. Become revolutionary and the traditional governments hate you, Stay traditional and the revolutionaries hate you.

The fall of Constantinople and Napoleon are the book ends of this games time period, after all.

 

[BaronNoir]

Yeah for the Revolution (rather toothless ATM), but, for instance, in Europe the wars of religion could be a watershed moment related to golden ages/dark ages (it ushered a near collapse of France, for instance, followed by Louis XIV...)

 

[chegitz guevara]

I am not sure a Golden Age only follows a period of strife or civil collapse, although they do sometimes follow it.

I agree that disasters do need to hurt, more.

 

[BaronNoir]

I am not sure a Golden Age only follows a period of strife or civil collapse, although they do sometimes follow it.

I agree that disasters do need to hurt, more.

The CIV 6 concept is that (also the reverse, that you are exhausted after a golden age), and it's not far fetched in game. The ''century of gold'' of Spain was followed by sharp decline.

 

[chegitz guevara]

I only got Civ VI yesterday, so I really can't comment on that mechanic.

 

[Dakka]

I wouldn’t mind Revolutionary spawning more and having a larger impact on the world like it did in history. I haven’t seen a Revolutionary Nation Spawn since their inception how many patches ago? It’s too easy to avoid and the only way it ever seems to pop is if the player does it to themselves on purpose

 

[bradles0]

one time i've seen a natural AI revolutionary nation was revolutionary Scotland, with a horrid flag ( )

But mostly i think you don't see many revolutions because not many people actually play that far.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Very little should be borrowed from civ 6. The UI is still in alpha, the tech timing vs unit marching time vs gg stacking is way off kilter, and even though Firaxis took the CB concept they forgot to also take any gameplay reasoning to bother with them or even to implement a means to force peace aside from conquering every last city.

Maybe I'll be surprised, but I doubt the game will have a good casual interaction for why a civ falls into a "dark age", and EU 4 definitely does not need MORE junk that happens w/o causes.

 

[Tufto]

"Dark Ages" and "Golden Ages" are not real things. They are historical abstractions, although I don't think any contemporary historian would use them any more.

In Civ 6, a rather more abstracted game than Eu4, they are abstractions to represent internal affairs. Eu4, while a state-centered game which doesn't give a whole lot of attention to internal affairs, is capable of modelling said affairs without recourse to abstraction via crises, disasters and specific events.

 

[Mrkew]

I am not sure a Golden Age only follows a period of strife or civil collapse, although they do sometimes follow it.

I agree that disasters do need to hurt, more.

More importantly, disasters need to be easier to trigger.

 

[BaronNoir]

"Dark Ages" and "Golden Ages" are not real things. They are historical abstractions, although I don't think any contemporary historian would use them any more.

In Civ 6, a rather more abstracted game than Eu4, they are abstractions to represent internal affairs. Eu4, while a state-centered game which doesn't give a whole lot of attention to internal affairs, is capable of modelling said affairs without recourse to abstraction via crises, disasters and specific events.

We have golden ages. I just found the idea of tying both (golden age/decline) interesting

 

[TheMeInTeam]

"Dark Ages" and "Golden Ages" are not real things. They are historical abstractions, although I don't think any contemporary historian would use them any more.

In Civ 6, a rather more abstracted game than Eu4, they are abstractions to represent internal affairs. Eu4, while a state-centered game which doesn't give a whole lot of attention to internal affairs, is capable of modelling said affairs without recourse to abstraction via crises, disasters and specific events.

Abstractions in games are still game mechanics. It remains to be seen if civ 6 can do a better job with golden/dark ages than it did CB, but given their trends I see no reason to trust that.

In EU 4 terms, what causes a dark age if you want to see it? Even abstractions need reasons for inclusion.

 

[Incompetent]

The concept of a 'golden age' is usually applied retrospectively to describe a period where some political entity happened to prosper, rather than describing any specific virtue of the state in question. Having a 'golden age' you can declare once per game doesn't really correspond to any historical process; it's more like a 'power play' in sports. It would be different if countries automatically went golden once reaching a particularly high tally of Splendour or Age goals (and no restriction on how often it happens to a given country); then you could at least argue it's a reflection of the country getting into some sort of ideal situation.

 

[Emiliana]

IDK i never use it this golden age system it seems really arbitrary. by the time its late enough in years to use it, im already stomping on all the ai nations. (the only time its relevant is when absolutism is kicked in for the +5 max absolutism)