There are too many mechanics that penalise the player rather than offer challenges

[WolframS67]

Isn't this like "How to cope with Europe 101"? I mean, I don't think I have ever played a Europe game since I was a complete noob where this wasn't a massive part of my idea group selection process. Sure, sometimes I wouldn't actually take it, but I would know exactly what risk I was taking.

If you are playing in Europe and you aren't taking one off religious or humanist, you must have a plan to deal with the reformation. ....

That is exactly the same way I have been going. Game as a beginner in Germany. Reformation, auto-conversion, unrest, rebels, disaster => panic. What to do? Ah, take Humanist Ideas. Some decades later, after filling it out, problem solved. Lecture for next games: Take Humanist before the reformation. Plus it gives splendors already from the start of the Age. Works well.

In a fast expansion game it is difficult to complete an Admin group early. It is easier to pick #1 something like Diplo or Espi and #2 something military like Defensive/Offensive. Invest the Adm points in coring and going to Adm Tech 10. To open 3 slots for Idea groups and be eligible to form bigger nations like GB or Prussia.
Even more aggressive and probably more optimal in WC-theory is: Taking Admin Ideas as #1 or #2. Just filling out the first two ideas for -25% CCC. But then it is very difficult to have another Admin group early.

Having a plan to deal with the reformation: Yes, that is the point. Absolutely.
Flipping Reformed asap and quickly converting key provinces is what I am doing most of the time. The problem is here more the hit in the opinion of all Catholic nations, not the religious unrest.
For France I had another plan: Because Nat Idea #7 is +2 ToHer and +2 ToHea my intention was to stay Catholic and do it with the "Edict of Nantes" and temporarily accept the demands of Heretic rebels. As I got my achievements way before the reformation kicked in, I just think it is viable, but I don't know it for sure.

 

[Kanem Bornu]

Isn't this like "How to cope with Europe 101"? I mean, I don't think I have ever played a Europe game since I was a complete noob where this wasn't a massive part of my idea group selection process. Sure, sometimes I wouldn't actually take it, but I would know exactly what risk I was taking.

If you are playing in Europe and you aren't taking one off religious or humanist, you must have a plan to deal with the reformation. It sounds like @Travis_Bickle neither picked one of these idea groups, AND failed to have a plan to cope with the reformation. This is a strategic failure (though a very easy strategic failure to make!).

Humanist can be considered an EU4 101 level idea group - a no brainer, great idea group for almost all circumstances.

However you can definitely play a game without it. With the new provoke rebel mechanic, it's easier than ever to just deal with the rebels when it's convenient instead of just sitting there for a decade watching them stall out at 90%...

 

[Silvanel]

In a fast expansion game it is difficult to complete an Admin group early. It is easier to pick #1 something like Diplo or Espi and #2 something military like Defensive/Offensive. Invest the Adm points in coring and going to Adm Tech 10. To open 3 slots for Idea groups and be eligible to form bigger nations like GB or Prussia.
Even more aggressive and probably more optimal in WC-theory is: Taking Admin Ideas as #1 or #2. Just filling out the first two ideas for -25% CCC. But then it is very difficult to have another Admin group early.

My personal WC start as European Nation is:
1. Admin
2. One of Diplo Ideas ((influence, exploration, diplomatic, espionage)
3. Religious/Humanist (religious if You want to remain Catholic or plan for One Faith)
4. Quantity

Filling Admin gives: -24% admin tech cost and -25% CC it pays back very fast.

 

[Howl]

My personal WC start as European Nation is:
1. Admin
2. One of Diplo Ideas ((influence, exploration, diplomatic, espionage)
3. Religious/Humanist (religious if You want to remain Catholic or plan for One Faith)
4. Quantity

Filling Admin gives: -24% admin tech cost and -25% CC it pays back very fast.

This.
Though I typically do not take a military idea before I have all of Admin/Humanist/Dilpomatic/Influence and Exploration if needed. Which means military ideas come at a point where they are no longer needed. But Offensive for speeding up sieges is always welcome.

 

[Kanem Bornu]

My personal WC start as European Nation is:
1. Admin
2. One of Diplo Ideas ((influence, exploration, diplomatic, espionage)
3. Religious/Humanist (religious if You want to remain Catholic or plan for One Faith)
4. Quantity

Filling Admin gives: -24% admin tech cost and -25% CC it pays back very fast.

I can't imagine a WC without Diplo ideas. That 25% province war score cost modifier has saved me in so many very late game situations. Personally I find it almost as mandatory as Admin.

Quantity is the only one I don't get from your list. I never take it on any run, let alone a WC. I think Offensive is the only "must" idea group for me in the mil group. That siege ability alone will save so much time, not to mention it's a terrific group overall. I understand why people like Quantity, I just think the bonuses are over valued. I would rather save manpower in sieges and battles rather than just have more of it.

 

[Travis_Bickle]

I appreciate all the responses in this thread.

I tried another save...

Disinheriting was a fair point. Had moderate luck with heirs this time round.

The reformation, I don't know what happened, but it didn't really hit my provinces. I started taking a couple of Humanist ideas but like only 2 of my provinces converted and the centre of reformation was in a neighbouring province.

This being said, how OP the Ottomans are is still unfair. They've eaten Eastern Europe (Like into Poland and Russia) with no opposition. Meanwhile if I take more than 3 provinces off of Castile or England I'm threatened with a coalition. I don't see how that makes sense or is fair. They can somehow take 10 off of the Commonwealth no problems. Absolutely no on can stop the Ottomans and they've helped Granada and Tunis get a foothold in Europe, whilst holding defender of the faith, so it's impossible to paint a map that I want to paint. They have 300k troops I can't even finance my 110k. They're at least 30% too strong imo.

And they do this all whilst keeping up to date on tech.

 

[RobbieAB]

Quantity is the only one I don't get from your list. I never take it on any run, let alone a WC. I think Offensive is the only "must" idea group for me in the mil group. That siege ability alone will save so much time, not to mention it's a terrific group overall. I understand why people like Quantity, I just think the bonuses are over valued. I would rather save manpower in sieges and battles rather than just have more of it.

You also forgot the Humanist/Offensive policy, which is pretty amazing for a major expansion, especially in trade company land.

 

[Travis_Bickle]

Guys seriously, is it normal for the Ottomans to be in Vienna AND Moscow early 1600s? it's a joke.

 

[Kimbole]

Guys seriously, is it normal for the Ottomans to be in Vienna AND Moscow early 1600s? it's a joke.

Not that normal in my experience. Depends a lot on what Austria/Poland/Russia are doing. But, is it a joke? I’m not sure single runs say much about that. See the myriad Ottomans are over/underpowered threads that pop up...

This being said, how OP the Ottomans are is still unfair. They've eaten Eastern Europe (Like into Poland and Russia) with no opposition. Meanwhile if I take more than 3 provinces off of Castile or England I'm threatened with a coalition. I don't see how that makes sense or is fair.

Their conquering orthodox land will annoy Catholics less than you eating Catholic land. And there are a lot more countries nearby to get outraged with you. Also probably you’re taking a lot more development per province than they are so that makes a difference. Improve relations, get an improve relations advisor, choose routes of conquest wisely. Conquering the entire British Isles can be done pretty quickly without triggering a coalition as long as you don‘t get too greedy.

Sounds like it’s an abnormally strong and blobby Ottomans. In my recent experience they have not tended to be that aggressive and often focus exclusively southwards. But to be honest there are still options to beat them. Easiest is outgrow them elsewhere until you are stronger. Eat GB, eat Iberia, eat Italy and you’ll be unstoppable anyway.

 

[Travis_Bickle]

Not that normal in my experience. Depends a lot on what Austria/Poland/Russia are doing. But, is it a joke? I’m not sure single runs say much about that. See the myriad Ottomans are over/underpowered threads that pop up...

Their conquering orthodox land will annoy Catholics less than you eating Catholic land. And there are a lot more countries nearby to get outraged with you. Also probably you’re taking a lot more development per province than they are so that makes a difference. Improve relations, get an improve relations advisor, choose routes of conquest wisely. Conquering the entire British Isles can be done pretty quickly without triggering a coalition as long as you don‘t get too greedy.

Sounds like it’s an abnormally strong and blobby Ottomans. In my recent experience they have not tended to be that aggressive and often focus exclusively southwards. But to be honest there are still options to beat them. Easiest is outgrow them elsewhere until you are stronger. Eat GB, eat Iberia, eat Italy and you’ll be unstoppable anyway.

They are in modern day Austria, Poland and currently occupying the Baltics. They're well, well into Catholic land and have warred with with the emperor. Is that realistic? If they eat Bohemia for good (they've finished the PLC) there's no stopping them. It happens one very single one of my saves and I think it's ridiculous and beyond any historical proportion.

 

[Howl]

They are in modern day Austria, Poland and currently occupying the Baltics. They're well, well into Catholic land and have warred with with the emperor. Is that realistic? If they eat Bohemia for good (they've finished the PLC) there's no stopping them. It happens one very single one of my saves and I think it's ridiculous and beyond any historical proportion.

So grow the other way. Possibly even become their friend. And when you have conquered half the world, go trash them.

 

[Kimbole]

They are in modern day Austria, Poland and currently occupying the Baltics. They're well, well into Catholic land and have warred with with the emperor. Is that realistic? If they eat Bohemia for good (they've finished the PLC) there's no stopping them. It happens one very single one of my saves and I think it's ridiculous and beyond any historical proportion.

Screenshots here would be interesting, but all I can really say is that it doesn’t chime with any kind of consistent experience I’ve had with EU IV.

 

[Silvanel]

I can't imagine a WC without Diplo ideas. That 25% province war score cost modifier has saved me in so many very late game situations. Personally I find it almost as mandatory as Admin.

Quantity is the only one I don't get from your list. I never take it on any run, let alone a WC. I think Offensive is the only "must" idea group for me in the mil group. That siege ability alone will save so much time, not to mention it's a terrific group overall. I understand why people like Quantity, I just think the bonuses are over valued. I would rather save manpower in sieges and battles rather than just have more of it.

Well its just a matter of style and preference i guess. Myself i usually run into huge manpower/coalition problems around the time for 3-4 idea group and quantity is helping me with that.

I did WC on 1.30.3 without diplo and i admit it was pain in the ass. At one point i hit -999 diplo points

 

[Travis_Bickle]

Well its just a matter of style and preference i guess. Myself i usually run into huge manpower/coalition problems around the time for 3-4 idea group and quantity is helping me with that.

I did WC on 1.30.3 without diplo and i admit it was pain in the ass. At one point i hit -999 diplo points

I'm really short on Admin/Diplo points atm and I cannot afford a huge army to match the Ottomans AND advisors that cost 16+ a month. How do you guys do it?

 

[Silvanel]

a)Power projection above 50 will give You +1/+1/+1. Besides wars, You also get PP from being big (great power), embargoing rivals, insulting rivals, privatering rivals. As You can see correct rival selection is very important. Make sure You can farm PP on them and only rival countries You dont want be friends with.

b)Estate priviliges also give +1/+1/+1. They are little bit tricker, as You will have to drop some of them to keep Absolutism high enough once it arrives but early game they are a must. Personally i keep +1 adm till end of the game since with proper modifiers You can still keep it and have absolutism above 100.

c)Correct national focus selection - think in advance about what kind of points You will need and set focus correctly. For example if You know You will take diplo ideas in few years it is nice to consider setting focus to diplo to fill Your bank.

d)Money. Make money. A lot of money. Money means better advisors. When You can afford it use better advisers. Remmeber that army comes first though.

e)Events. Avoid taking decisions costing points and take does giving points.

f)Disinherit bad heirs and abdicate bad rulers.

g)Little things count --> If You dont have problems with stability is often wise (especially early game) to wait for Your War Exhaustiion to go down before coring.

h)Dont buy stability above 1. Especially as catholic.

i)Only lower WE and inflantion via points when You really need to. Usually You can keep them low enough via other means.

j)Keep corruption low. Dont spend points if You can avoid it while Your corruption is not 0.

k)Watch out if peace deal will cost You points (diplo), sometimes is just not worth it to take extra provinces.

l)Try to gain innovativness, but not at all costs. Remmeber that You need just one tech tree ahead of time to keep gaining.

m)Delay buying tech as much as possible (so it is cheaper when You buy it).

n)Attend to institution spread.

o)Use edicts (cheaper development, trade boost, intitution spread). they are worth it, just not everywhere and not every time.