Hey everyone,
Do you all know about playing France in EU4 (this pops up in multiplayer more) and how you can end up having an England with land still left in France but no real way of stopping them from squatting all over your rightful land? You really cant do much without having to face the ever-superior British Navy, and thought there is a better way for this to go down because both you and England know that Navy can't drag itself over land to come keep you from occupying whatever it is that they are unrealistically holding on to, but due to a handful of otherwise genius game mechanics, refuse to give up? *Takes Breath* So, Here is a suggestion to reduce unrealistic situations with overseas nations such as England or Japan never giving up territory they cannot control anymore, as well as to make wars a lot less of a full commitment when all you really want is just a province or two that isn't worth more than something out of Siberia.
Solution 1 (Paul)
Once a country has achieved full ticking war score (25%), they can stab hit the defending country for any cores or claims they occupy equal to the amount of war score they currently have. If because of distant allies that war score is not very high they can always stab hit for at least the war goal.
Solution 2 (Boblet)
If you occupy a province you have a claim on (and any nearby forts if there is any) you get the chance to core whatever province you have a claim on while at war and occupying the province the whole length of time it takes to make the province a core. It would go faster if it happens to be in your primary culture group and if you finish the core then you can stability hit the enemy for whatever province you have made a core on regardless of the war score cost as long as it does not surpass 100 war score. In the situation you already have a core on the province you would only have to occupy it for 2 years time before you can stability hit for it if it is your primary culture, 3 years if its a core and is in your primary culture's group (ex. French, German) or is an accepted culture, and 4 years if it is a core and not an accepted or similar culture. ~The provinces could shine gold in the peace deal menu if any of these criteria are met~
Reasons Why This Can Be Useful (Paul)
1) The Hundred Years War and English continental holdings. It is currently possible, especially in multiplayer, for England to simply sit on its island without even attempting to fight for its cores and troll the French player by never giving him his cores with such cheese as deleting forts and parliament debates to reduce war exhaustion..
Later on its nearly impossible to grab Calais if England doesn't have allies France can get to to exploit war score, even though once they emerged as the dominant European power after the hundred years war they kicked out the English fairly easily. As it is, France needs to orchestrate a naval invasion of England for a piece of the continent England cannot defend just because it is so easy to troll as England
2) Colonial wars. I will use the traditional England-France rivalry as an example again.
Let's say England beats France on sea and they both have North American colonies. Historically, the French surrendered Quebec when the fort of Quebec fell. In game, however, as England will not have the strength to invade a French player, England never gets to the 50 war score required for stab hitting and will just sit on an occupied French North America forever until the Rebel Defense Strategy costs England even more war score. Even worse, because of Colonial Nations having separate war exhaustion counts France will not suffer at all for trolling England for dozens of years until England finally gives up and white peaces.
3) Turko-Russian conflict in the Crimea. Currently, especially against an Ottoman player, a Russian player has to siege down Constantinople and maybe even Anatolia to get a few provinces in the Crimea. This is silly, the Russians never carpet sieged the Ottoman Empire historically over the border disputes in the Crimea. The fact that you need 50 war score to stab hit for anything turns every single war into a total war, which is both anti-historical and silly.
4) Colonial conquests. Let's take England, the King of Cheese, as an example again, though any European colonial power can also do this. Suppose England has a small foothold in India, and there is a relatively large Indian power. The best strategy for England is, again, to delete all forts to deny war score and make war exhaustion a non-factor. Currently, even if India occupied those unfortified provinces for 20 years and England didn't even try to fight India there's nothing India can do. They can just sit there at war forever until they give up and white peace.
Taking those few provinces in India would require a naval invasion of the Isles, which is again anti-historical and silly.
Conclusion: Not being able to stab hit for your occupied cores and claims when you have gotten all the ticking war score you can get opens the door for cheese and makes every war inevitably a total war (which is bad game play and bad historical simulation).
(I am aware that in single player the AI has not been coded to exploit game mechanics to this extent and will usually give up after a bit even when it doesn't have to, but in multiplayer this really leads to silly situations that don't make any sense and enable extreme trolling with little to no consequences for the people doing it.)
Being able to stab hit for occupied cores and claims equal to your current war score would go a long way towards making the game more sensible and lead to fewer silly situations.
Do you all know about playing France in EU4 (this pops up in multiplayer more) and how you can end up having an England with land still left in France but no real way of stopping them from squatting all over your rightful land? You really cant do much without having to face the ever-superior British Navy, and thought there is a better way for this to go down because both you and England know that Navy can't drag itself over land to come keep you from occupying whatever it is that they are unrealistically holding on to, but due to a handful of otherwise genius game mechanics, refuse to give up? *Takes Breath* So, Here is a suggestion to reduce unrealistic situations with overseas nations such as England or Japan never giving up territory they cannot control anymore, as well as to make wars a lot less of a full commitment when all you really want is just a province or two that isn't worth more than something out of Siberia.
Solution 1 (Paul)
Once a country has achieved full ticking war score (25%), they can stab hit the defending country for any cores or claims they occupy equal to the amount of war score they currently have. If because of distant allies that war score is not very high they can always stab hit for at least the war goal.
Solution 2 (Boblet)
If you occupy a province you have a claim on (and any nearby forts if there is any) you get the chance to core whatever province you have a claim on while at war and occupying the province the whole length of time it takes to make the province a core. It would go faster if it happens to be in your primary culture group and if you finish the core then you can stability hit the enemy for whatever province you have made a core on regardless of the war score cost as long as it does not surpass 100 war score. In the situation you already have a core on the province you would only have to occupy it for 2 years time before you can stability hit for it if it is your primary culture, 3 years if its a core and is in your primary culture's group (ex. French, German) or is an accepted culture, and 4 years if it is a core and not an accepted or similar culture. ~The provinces could shine gold in the peace deal menu if any of these criteria are met~
Reasons Why This Can Be Useful (Paul)
1) The Hundred Years War and English continental holdings. It is currently possible, especially in multiplayer, for England to simply sit on its island without even attempting to fight for its cores and troll the French player by never giving him his cores with such cheese as deleting forts and parliament debates to reduce war exhaustion..
Later on its nearly impossible to grab Calais if England doesn't have allies France can get to to exploit war score, even though once they emerged as the dominant European power after the hundred years war they kicked out the English fairly easily. As it is, France needs to orchestrate a naval invasion of England for a piece of the continent England cannot defend just because it is so easy to troll as England
2) Colonial wars. I will use the traditional England-France rivalry as an example again.
Let's say England beats France on sea and they both have North American colonies. Historically, the French surrendered Quebec when the fort of Quebec fell. In game, however, as England will not have the strength to invade a French player, England never gets to the 50 war score required for stab hitting and will just sit on an occupied French North America forever until the Rebel Defense Strategy costs England even more war score. Even worse, because of Colonial Nations having separate war exhaustion counts France will not suffer at all for trolling England for dozens of years until England finally gives up and white peaces.
3) Turko-Russian conflict in the Crimea. Currently, especially against an Ottoman player, a Russian player has to siege down Constantinople and maybe even Anatolia to get a few provinces in the Crimea. This is silly, the Russians never carpet sieged the Ottoman Empire historically over the border disputes in the Crimea. The fact that you need 50 war score to stab hit for anything turns every single war into a total war, which is both anti-historical and silly.
4) Colonial conquests. Let's take England, the King of Cheese, as an example again, though any European colonial power can also do this. Suppose England has a small foothold in India, and there is a relatively large Indian power. The best strategy for England is, again, to delete all forts to deny war score and make war exhaustion a non-factor. Currently, even if India occupied those unfortified provinces for 20 years and England didn't even try to fight India there's nothing India can do. They can just sit there at war forever until they give up and white peace.
Taking those few provinces in India would require a naval invasion of the Isles, which is again anti-historical and silly.
Conclusion: Not being able to stab hit for your occupied cores and claims when you have gotten all the ticking war score you can get opens the door for cheese and makes every war inevitably a total war (which is bad game play and bad historical simulation).
(I am aware that in single player the AI has not been coded to exploit game mechanics to this extent and will usually give up after a bit even when it doesn't have to, but in multiplayer this really leads to silly situations that don't make any sense and enable extreme trolling with little to no consequences for the people doing it.)
Being able to stab hit for occupied cores and claims equal to your current war score would go a long way towards making the game more sensible and lead to fewer silly situations.
