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unmerged(52196)

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When the couts came to Moscow, they were named Khovrins. They changed their surname into Golovin ~16th century.

Perhaps we could make them as rulers of Theodoros? However the only Golovin I know is Feodor Alekseyevich, advisor of Peter I (obviously we also know his father's name). Anyone has ascces to the family tree of the Golovins?
 

doktarr

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I'm not sure this stuff is recent enough to game period to consider, but if it is, I'd suggest the following setup:

- Theodoros starts with Greek and Tatar culture, with cores on Kerch and Trebizond.

- If Theodoros owns Trebizond, they get an event that allows them to move their capital to Trebizond, gain cores on Kurdistan and Sivas, lose Tatar culture, and gain Armenian culture. This would amount to coming back from exile and recreating the old Armenian dynasty.
 

unmerged(44347)

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that's a good point I think. To give them cores step, by step, maybe when they are succesful they shoudl have the chance to become Bizantium?;) That would be cool fantasy, Bizantium reigning again on the Turks back;)
 

doktarr

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Stettiner said:
maybe when they are succesful they shoudl have the chance to become Bizantium?;) That would be cool fantasy, Bizantium reigning again on the Turks back;)
It would be pure fantasy, I think, and as such not appropriate. I'm not suggesting that Theodoros would become Trezibond, just move their capital there. Theodoros has no reasonable claim to become Byzantium.
 

motiv-8

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Very awesome MKJ, I've been trying unsuccessfully to find information on that tiny little statelet forever now. The most I could ever find was the date of its fall, which if I remember correctly was 1475.
 

aylo1

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For some references on the final days Theodoros try reading Dorothy Dunnett's - 'Caprice & Rondo'.

IMHO a continued Theodoros would prob go the way of Georgia & its successor states (Kartli, Kakheti, Imereti) becoming TUR, PER or RUS vassals till being annexed by one of them.

Also curious where ur gonna get the monarch\leaderlists??
 

unmerged(40707)

Just call me Yoda in private!
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Birger said:
After some research it seems that the Golovin family, (Khovrin-Golovin), descend from the ruling family of Theodoro. The Gabras/Khovra/Chowra family.

So I e-mailed Ilya Morozov, @ http://heraldry.hobby.ru, to see if he knew what coat of arms the family used.

"Golovin (Khovrin-Golovin) is a very famous noble family of Russian
Empire, so it had a lot of branches with their own arms. I send you
the arms of the count Feodor Alekseyevich Golovin (1650 - 1706); he
was a most famous member of this family: "
What about Golovin family for alternative (*) dynasty if Theodoros survives after 1476?

Where is it possible to find related genealogical information about them?

I found this link but not much information before Feodor Golovin.
 
Last edited:

zdlugasz

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From Central Asia thread (it started with Golden Horde, moved to Crimea and ended with Theodoro so it is time to change thread)

me:
I have modified my original proposal (removal of cores, lack of secesion of Kaffa and kerch but I propose to keep secession of Jedysan - if we ever want to model wars between Poland or Russia and OE we need Jedysan in Turkish hands)

Quite recently I read that some Genoese cities (e.g. Kaffa) did recognize rule and paid tribute to Khan of Golden Horde (for sure in 1460-ties and 1470-ties). I do not know about Teodoro, and about 1419, but if we would make Teodoro vassal of Golden Horde, it could have better chance to stay alive little longer (GH will take him into alliance and can not annex). However if we encourage historical wars between GH and Crimea it may seepd up demise of Teodoro.

Yoda
On French Forum, we are preparing events for OE to "inherit" Theodoros in 1476. Not ready yet but will be proposed here soon.

me
And what kind of justification is provided?
That OE owned it after 1475? It is streaching. I do not know why Trebizond should be "inherited" (OE does not have problems to conquer it) but I do not know history of Trebizond at all.
Genoese/Wallachian and other cities at the northern coast of Black See did not recognize Sultan (and sultan was ot interested to make conquests there).
It was involvment of Khan of Golden Horde in Crimean internal affairs (GH wanted to subjugate Crimea) and appeals of pretenders to Crimean throne to the Sultan which sparked Ottoman intervention.
 

Laur

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AGC-EEP Theodoro

I am not sure if there is another Theodoro thread on this forum, but I came accross some historical information which could constitute the basis for some events. If there is another thread, please attach this post to it. Other names for Theodoro: Doro, Mangop, Ghotia.

1422: Theodoro and the Genoese of Kaffa go to war over the seaport of Cembalo and over trade in the Black Sea. The city changes hands a number of times over the next ten years and will be the cause of many conflicts between the colony and the principality.

1425: Genoa captures Cembalo and fortifies it.

1427: Alexis of Ghotia bulds a seaport at Kalimita (present day Inkerman)

1432: Alexis of Ghotia allies his principality on the side of Venice against their common enemy, Genoa.

1433: With Venetian support, Alexis begins the long war against Genoa (lasted until 1441). He manages to capture Cembalo, also with the help of its Greek residents, but the conquest is short lived. War ends with a return to the status quo ante bellum.

1447: War between Trebizond and Genoa. Trebizond receives support from Theodoro and also the Eastern Roman Empire fleet briefly blockades Kaffa.

1449: The Statute of Kaffa, a set of gudelines on how to govern a colony, is published. This is a very important, although obviously biased, historical source for the area.

1453: Fall of Constantinople is received with alarm in Ghotia.

1456: Rapproachement between Genoa and Theodoro regarding the common Ottoman danger.

1461: Fall of Trebizond aids the rapproachement between the two former foes.

1470's: Religious struggle between the Catholics and Orthodox over the union of the churches causes great civil unrest in the Genoese colonies.

14th September 1472: Maria Assanina Paleologhina (Maria of Mangop), sister of Isaac Sachius, marries Stephen the Great of Moldavia. Moldavia agrees to aid Theodoros in its struggle against the Ottomans.

1475: Stephen the Great supports Alexander, brother ohf Maria of Mangop with 300 mercenaries. The coup is successful, and Alexander murders his brother, Isaac Sachius, and assumes control of Theodoro.

1477: Maria of Mangop dies and is interred at Putna where her beautiful grave can be admired today.

6th June 1475: after a 6 day siege, Kaffa falls to the Ottomans. Many residents flee to Mangop (Theodoro). The others are taken into slavery.

1475: Appeal from Stephen the Great of Moldova to Mathias Corvinus for assistance against the Ottomans.

December 1475: After a three month siege, the Ottomans capture Mangop using heavy artilery. The defences consisted of the 300 Moldovian mercenaries 15,000 local troups. The prince is beheaded, his wife and daughters sent to the Sultan's harem.

1476: Mangop is rebuilt and will serve as the Ottoman citadel of control over their Crimean vassals.

1492: After accepting his vassal status to the Porte and the loss of the Bugeac (1486), Stephen the Great of Moldavia signs an offensive alliance with Mengli Giray, Khan of Crimea, directed against Poland Lithuania. Stephen desired Pocutia, while the Khan wanted to secure his supremacy over Kiev (Mankerman)

1493: A great fire destroys most of Mangop. The Turks rebuild it.

Hope this helps,

Cheers!!

Laur
 
Last edited:

unmerged(48371)

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some news:

Also as a result of the Hun victory the Alans likewise defeated the Goths. Elements of both groups were pushed west, the Alans clear to Brittany and northern Spain. The history of the next several centuries for Crimea is difficult to determine as most of the contemporary sources are devoted to events inside the main areas of the Roman Empire. By this time the population of Sudak contained groups of the original Maotians, Greeks, Scythians, Sarmatian Alans, Goths, Slavs, and Huns. Many Alans and Goths fled south into the Caucasus. In Crimea they created the community that became the Feodoro principality on Mangup Kale. (See Mangup) Its Alanic name was Doros. About all that can be said is that during the Fourth and early Fifth Centuries Crimea continued to be an important center for trade between the Mediterranean world and the Baltic as well as into Central Asia. And not only merchants, but also Christian missionaries arrived from Asia minor throughout these unsettled times.

From Kaffa the Turks promptly besieged Sudak, which fell after a heroic resistance. The Genoese were routed out of Crimea by the Ottomans in 1475-77, losing Sudak, Kaffa, Chembalo, Chersonese, Kalos Liman and other bases. The Ottoman army then went on to siege and storm the Goth-Alan fortress on Mangup Kale, thus clearing Crimea of its remaining Christian enclaves.
Under Tatar control, as they acted as agents for the Ottoman Turks, trade, especially in slaves, was centered at Kaffa, while Sudak fell into ruin.
 

unmerged(48371)

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TUR event

hie,

i'm into building a small sequency about the fall of Theodoros, including events for TUR, CRI, MOS, BYZ, TRE & maybe MOL.
No events for Theodoro (KAL) now, but as it's related to it i prefer posting them here, as there's currently a batch of posts in MOS & TUR topics.

so here's the first one, the others will come tomorrow.

Code:
#(1419-1518) Conquest of the Theodoro's wedge/enclave
event = {
	id = TUR_01
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 464 data = -1 }
		control = { province = 464 data = -1 }
			NOT = { 
				event = CRI_01 #event in case CRI annexed KAL
				exists = KAL
			}
	}
	random = no
	country = TUR
	name = "EVENTNAMETUR_01" #
	desc = "EVENTHISTTUR_01"
	

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { year = 1518 } #Turkish dominance on the Black Sea

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAMETUR_01A" #Sell these people as slaves
		command = { type = population which = 464 value = -2000 } #Kaffa
		command = { type = treasury value = 50 }
		command = { type = trade value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = MOS value = -10 }
		command = { type = relation which = TRE value = -10 }
		command = { type = relation which = BYZ value = -10 }
		command = { type = relation which = MOL value = -20 }
		command = { type = badboy value = -1 } #Theodoro existence may be not known by 
every european country i guess
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = 464 value = -1 } #Kaffa
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAMETUR_01B" #Treat them like every conquested people
		command = { type = badboy value = -1 } #Theodoro existence may be not known		
	}
	action_c = {
		name = "ACTIONNAMETUR_01C" #Sack and erase town & fortifications
		command = { type = population which = 464 value = -5000 } #Kaffa
		command = { type = treasury value = 80 } 
		command = { type = trade value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = MOS value = -30 }
		command = { type = relation which = TRE value = -30 }
		command = { type = relation which = BYZ value = -30 }
		command = { type = relation which = MOL value = -40 } 
		command = { type = badboy value = -1 } #Theodoro existence may be not known
		command = { type = provincemanpower which = 464 value = -2 } #Kaffa
		command = { type = fortress which = 464 value = -1 } #Kaffa
	}
}
#-#When Ottoman Empire conquest Theodoro, its nobility fled to Muscovy and most of its people where sold as slave. The females of the royal family have been sent to the sultan's harem. Kaffa begin to be a center of trade focuzed on slaves.

Please verify my english errors :)


Byzance event
Code:
#(1419-1820) The Fall of Theodoro
event = {
	id = BYZ_01
	trigger = {
		OR = {
			event = TUR_01
			event = CRI_01
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = BYZ
	name = "EVENTNAMEBYZ_01" #Theodoro nobility dispersion
	desc = "EVENTHISTBYZ_01"
	

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { year = 1820 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAMEBYZ_01A" #Welcome them!
		command = { type = population which = -2 value = 300 } #Kaffa
		command = { type = treasury value = 5 }
		command = { type = infra value = 1 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = TRE_01 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = MOS_01 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = MOL_01 }
		[COLOR=Yellow]command = { type = sleepevent which = RUS_01 }[/COLOR]	
	}
}
#-#When Theodoro fell, its nobility move to Muscovy in order to live in a friendly foreign country with orthodox religion. They surely go to Byzance or Trebizond, if they had still exists.

Trebizond Event
Code:
#(1419-1820) The Fall of Theodoro
event = {
	id = TRE_01
	trigger = {
		OR = {
			event = TUR_01
			event = CRI_01
		}
		NOT = {
			exists = BYZ
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = TRE
	name = "EVENTNAMEBYZ_01" #Theodoro nobility dispersion
	desc = "EVENTHISTBYZ_01"
	

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { year = 1820 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAMETRE_01A" #Welcome them!
		command = { type = population which = -2 value = 300 } #Kaffa
		command = { type = treasury value = 5 }
		command = { type = infra value = 1 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = BYZ_01 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = MOS_01 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = MOL_01 }
		[COLOR=Yellow]command = { type = sleepevent which = RUS_01 }[/COLOR]		
	}
}


Muscovy event
Code:
#(1419-1820) The Fall of Theodoro
event = {
	id = MOS_01
	trigger = {
		OR = {
			event = TUR_01
			event = CRI_01
		}
		NOT = {
			exists = BYZ
			exists = TRE
			[COLOR=Yellow]exists = RUS[/COLOR]
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = MOS
	name = "EVENTNAMEBYZ_01" #Theodoro nobility dispersion
	desc = "EVENTHISTBYZ_01"
	

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { year = 1820  }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAMEMOS_01A" #Welcome them!
		command = { type = population which = -2 value = 300 } #Kaffa
		command = { type = treasury value = 5 }
		command = { type = infra value = 1 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = BYZ_01 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = TRE_01 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = MOL_01 }
		[COLOR=Yellow]command = { type = sleepevent which = RUS_01 }[/COLOR]		
	}
}

Moldavia event
Code:
#(1419-1820) The Fall of Theodoro
event = {
	id = MOL_01
	trigger = {
		OR = {
			event = TUR_01
			event = CRI_01
		}
		NOT = {
			exists = BYZ
			exists = TRE
			exists = MOS
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = MOL
	name = "EVENTNAMEBYZ_01" #Theodoro nobility dispersion
	desc = "EVENTHISTBYZ_01"
	

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { year = 1820 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAMEMOL_01A" #Welcome them!
		command = { type = population which = -2 value = 300 } #Kaffa
		command = { type = treasury value = 5 }
		command = { type = infra value = 1 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = BYZ_01 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = TRE_01 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = MOS_01 }
		[COLOR=Yellow]command = { type = sleepevent which = RUS_01 }[/COLOR]			
	}
}


Crimea
Code:
#(1419-1475) Conquest of the Theodoro's wedge/enclave
event = {
	id = CRI_01
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 464 data = -1 }
		control = { province = 464 data = -1 }
			NOT = { 
				event = TUR_01
				exists = KAL
			}
	}
	random = no
	country = CRI
	name = "EVENTNAMECRI_01" #
	desc = "EVENTHISTCRI_01"
	

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { year = 1475 } #Crimea submit to Ottoman ruler

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAMECRI_01A" #Assimilation and colonization
		command = { type = population which = 464 value = -800 } #Kaffa
		command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -20 } #conquering a TUR core/future core
		command = { type = relation which = MOL value = -10 }
		command = { type = badboy value = -1 } #Theodoro unknown country
		command = { type = provincereligion which = 464 value = sunni } #Kaffa
		command = { type = provinceculture which = 464 value = tatar } #Kaffa
		command = { type = addcore which = 464 } #Kaffa
		command = { type = colonists value = -6 } 
		command = { type = missionaries value = -1 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAMECRI_01B" #Assimilation
		command = { type = badboy value = -1 } #Theodoro unknown country
		command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -20 } #conquering a TUR core/future core
		command = { type = relation which = MOL value = -10 }
		command = { type = population which = 464 value = -1000 } #Kaffa
		command = { type = provincereligion which = 464 value = sunni } #Kaffa
		command = { type = addcore which = 464 } #Kaffa
		command = { type = missionaries value = -1 }
	}
	action_c = {
		name = "ACTIONNAMECRI_01C" #Let them be
		command = { type = population which = 464 value = -500 } #Kaffa
		command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -10 } 
		command = { type = badboy value = -1 } #Theodoro unknown country
	}
}
#-#It appears that Theodoro was a multicultural state. It's population consist in mainly Goths, and some Greeks, Tatars, Armenian and Slaves. Its integration to the Khanate of Crimea as for result most of the city people fled to orthodox countries.
 
Last edited:

unmerged(40707)

Just call me Yoda in private!
Mar 1, 2005
20.187
2
Sadly, it is impossible to change goods by event. There is no such command.

Command for triggering event is:
command = { type = trigger which = <eventid> }

Try to shorten action name for action_c => "Sack and destroy the city"

Something is missing in description.
 

unmerged(48371)

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Kal Events

Code:
#(1427) Building a seaport
event = {
	id = KAL_01
	random = no
	country = KAL
	name = "EVENTNAMEKAL_01"
	desc = "EVENTHISTKAL_01"
	#-#We need it for trade and fishing.	

	date = { year = 1427 }
	offset = 10
	deathdate = { year = 1428 }

	action_a ={
		name = "ACTIONNAMEKAL_01A" #Of course
		command = { type = domestic which = land value = -1 }
		command = { type = trade value = 50 }
		command = { type = naval value = 100 }
		command = { type = treasury value = -30 }
	}
}

Code:
#Supporting Trebizond
event = {
	id = KAL_02
	trigger = {
		war = { country = TRE country = GEN }
	}
	random = no
	country = KAL
	name = "EVENTNAMEKAL_02"
	desc = "EVENTHISTKAL_02"
	#-#Our brothers of Trebizond are in war with Genoa, what must we do ?

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
	offset = 15
	deathdate = { year = 1820 }

	action_a ={
		name = "ACTIONNAMEKAL_02A" #Limited support
		command = { type = relation which = TRE value = 20 }
		command = { type = relation which = GEN value = -20 }
	}
	action_b ={
		name = "ACTIONNAMEB" #Express support
		command = { type = casusbelli which = GEN value = 18 }
		command = { type = relation which = TRE value = 30 }
		command = { type = relation which = GEN value = -50 }
	}
	action_c ={
		name = "ACTIONNAMEC" #How boring!
		command = { type = relation which = TRE value = -10 }
		command = { type = relation which = GEN value = 10 }
	}
}

Code:
#Byzance has fallen
event = {
	id = KAL_03
	trigger = {
		[COLOR=Yellow]owned = { province = 357 data = TUR } #Byzance[/COLOR]
		NOT = {
			exists = BYZ
		{
	}
	random = no
	country = KAL
	name = "EVENTNAMEKAL_03"
	desc = "EVENTHISTKAL_03"
	#-#The Ottoman Threat gets closer.

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
	offset = 15
	deathdate = { year = 1820 }

	action_a ={
		name = "ACTIONNAMEKAL_03A" #Oh my God!
		command = { type = stability value = -3 }
	}
}

Code:
#(1456) The ottoman threat
event = {
	id = KAL_04
	trigger = {
		exists = TUR
		[COLOR=Yellow]exists = MOS[/COLOR]
		neighbour = GEN
}
	random = no
	country = KAL
	name = "EVENTNAMEKAL_04"
	desc = "EVENTHISTKAL_04"
	#-#Facing the ottoman threat, Olobei had no choice than to improve relation with Genoa.

	date = { year = 1456 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { year = 1477 }

	action_a ={
		name = "ACTIONNAMEKAL_04A" #Send a diplomat to Kaffa
		command = { type = relation which = GEN value = 150 }
		command = { type = diplomats value = -1 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = KAL_02 }
	}
	action_b ={
		name = "ACTIONNAMEKAL_04B" #We must rely on Muscovy
		command = { type = dynastic which = MOS }
		command = { type = diplomats value = -1 }
	}
}

Code:
#The fall of Trebizond
event = {
	id = KAL_05
	trigger = {
		exists = TUR
		[COLOR=Yellow]exists = MOS[/COLOR]
		neighbour = GEN
			NOT = {
				exists = TRE
			}
}
	random = no
	country = KAL
	name = "EVENTNAMEKAL_05"
	desc = "EVENTHISTKAL_05"
	#-#Our brothers of Trebizond has fallen, we need to seek new friends.

	date = { year = 1419 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { year = 1477 }

	action_a ={
		name = "ACTIONNAMEKAL_04A" #Send a diplomat to Kaffa
		command = { type = relation which = GEN value = 150 }
		command = { type = diplomats value = -1 }
	}
	action_b ={
		name = "ACTIONNAMEKAL_04B" #We must rely on Muscovy
		command = { type = dynastic which = MOS }
		command = { type = diplomats value = -1 }
	}
}
 
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