Theocracies WTF???

[Meg2345]

So I was several centuries into an Ironman game (started as Charles the Bald) and life as an Emperor was great. I had only one son and was eagerly awaiting his succession. Had some spare titles lying around and decided to give one to said son. I some how didn't notice until I was dead that I had given him a theocracy and effed up my whole succession! Now I'm stuck playing as his sister who inherited 2 counties and have to figure out a way to get the empire back in my control since my child Grandson of a different dynasty inherited the Emperor title and was quickly deposed. That's my sob story (yes, I realize it's pathetic no need to rub it in haha).

But, my question is how the heck did my Catholic son even qualify to be given a theocracy being that he is not a member of the clergy? Also how did the whole Kingdom of Burgundy become a theocratic title? I don't remember it starting out that way but, maybe it did? I realize there is nothing I can do to "fix" my succession issues now but, any help in understanding the rules of theocracies in general would be appreciated. I'm sure this has been asked before but, I haven't really dealt with theocracies beyond the normal bishoprics before now..... thanks!

 

[SupremTurtle]

The county title that you gave him probably had an theocratic capital barony, causing him to turn into a prince bishop.

 

[Meg2345]

The county title that you gave him probably had an theocratic capital barony, causing him to turn into a prince bishop.

Yes that is what happened except I apparently gave him an entirely theocratic countRy not just a county in this case. And I'm just confused as to how he qualifies to be King- Bishop of Burgundy in the first place being that he's married and Catholicism doesn't have married clergy.

 

[captainroot]

So I was several centuries into an Ironman game (started as Charles the Bald) and life as an Emperor was great. I had only one son and was eagerly awaiting his succession. Had some spare titles lying around and decided to give one to said son. I some how didn't notice until I was dead that I had given him a theocracy and effed up my whole succession! Now I'm stuck playing as his sister who inherited 2 counties and have to figure out a way to get the empire back in my control since my child Grandson of a different dynasty inherited the Emperor title and was quickly deposed. That's my sob story (yes, I realize it's pathetic no need to rub it in).

But, my question is how the heck did my Catholic son even qualify to be given a theocracy being that he is not a member of the clergy? Also how the F did Kingdom of Burgundy become a theocratic title? I don't remember it starting out that way, maybe it did? I realize there is nothing I can do to "fix" my succession issues now but, any help in understanding the rules of theocracies in general would be appreciated. I'm sure this has been asked before but, I haven't really dealt with theocracies beyond the normal bishoprics before now..... thanks!

Since this is a game where dynastic persistence and inheritance are of paramount importance, the devs should really consider adding some in-game warnings to prevent this type of situations.

 

[SupremTurtle]

Yes that is what happened. I'm just confused as to how he qualifies to be King- Bishop of Burgundy in the first place being that he's married with children and Catholicism doesn't have married clergy.

It is currently an oversight by paradox - allowing to grant titles without checking eligibility. From what I can gather from your post, he probably received the Empire of Francis and Kingdom of Burgundy via partition, but he lost the Empire title to a claimant faction yet retained his kingdom title. All titles are styled differently when being held by a theocracy(barony-bishopric, county-bishopric, duchy-prince bishop, kingdom-king bishopric, and empire-Imperial Church). It’s just styling issue.

 

[SupremTurtle]

Since this is a game where dynastic persistence and inheritance are of paramount importance, the devs should really consider adding some in-game warnings to prevent this type of situations.

But it does. The inheritance page will show that while the son inherits all of the titles, he would not be the primary heir since he is unplayable.

 

[Meg2345]

Since this is a game where dynastic persistence and inheritance are of paramount importance, the devs should really consider adding some in-game warnings to prevent this type of situations.

Yes, I've heard of this happening before with people accidentally giving their kids republics so I should've known better and paid more attention but, a warning upon handing out the title would be nice. Especially when running a large empire it's hard to keep track, I had no idea Kingdom of Burgundy was a theocratic title or I would've given it away to some nobody!

 

[Meg2345]

From what I can gather from your post, he probably received the Empire of Francis and Kingdom of Burgundy via partition, but he lost the Empire title to a claimant faction yet retained his kingdom title.

My son was skipped over for the Empire and other Kingdom titles when I mistakenly gave him the theocracy. One of my Daughter's sons (my Grandson) did inherit my empire and later fell to a claimant faction but, he's not of my dynasty so I don't have to worry about him. I'm currently stuck playing as the poor Countess of some backwater. Such a shock after being Emperor! Lol

 

[Tuo]

But it does. The inheritance page will show that while the son inherits all of the titles, he would not be the primary heir since he is unplayable.

I believe the warning mentioned would be on granting a title that would make the character's government type republic or theocracy - as it is, it's an easy, if rare, mistake to make.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

So I was several centuries into an Ironman game (started as Charles the Bald) and life as an Emperor was great. I had only one son and was eagerly awaiting his succession. Had some spare titles lying around and decided to give one to said son. I some how didn't notice until I was dead that I had given him a theocracy and effed up my whole succession! Now I'm stuck playing as his sister who inherited 2 counties and have to figure out a way to get the empire back in my control since my child Grandson of a different dynasty inherited the Emperor title and was quickly deposed. That's my sob story (yes, I realize it's pathetic no need to rub it in haha).

But, my question is how the heck did my Catholic son even qualify to be given a theocracy being that he is not a member of the clergy? Also how did the whole Kingdom of Burgundy become a theocratic title? I don't remember it starting out that way but, maybe it did? I realize there is nothing I can do to "fix" my succession issues now but, any help in understanding the rules of theocracies in general would be appreciated. I'm sure this has been asked before but, I haven't really dealt with theocracies beyond the normal bishoprics before now..... thanks!

There was some weirdness during the middle ages where some of the higher churchment (courtesy cardinals and the like) didn't necessarily have to be unmarried - they'd just have to have an adjutant bishop do the actual church stuff.
That got *somewhat* curtailed as time went on though.

Broadly, it seems to be that if your first landed title is a barony that is a "temple" holding (or a county with a temple holding as the capital) you're set as a theocracy, and retain this designation even as you acquire other titles. (Assuming you're in a faith where there's a distinction between theocratic and secular rulers, since most muslims at least seem to be able to hold both).

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

Gotta admit, that was a good clickbait title. Made me click.