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The ask yourself why those rulers could get more money from becoming part of the Raj than remaining independent.
Sometimes less is more. There are so many balancing issues facing this game that adding another level of problems for countries which don't really fit the economic theme of the game will be an endeavor of diminishing returns.
It would be nice for every country to be equal, to find some way to add 3rd world economics to the engine, but is it worth the time?
The game is a Euro-centric one, probably a little too much at the moment. My preference is for it to stay that way, and I doubt either of us shall be convinced by the other.
I totally agree with you. I think scoring and 'winning' should be based more on your starting position than what you do compared to England for instance. i.e. a handicap bonus for uncivilized/small countries. Maybe there is something like this now, but I think you should be able to get big points for keeping a country small country alive and advancing.
Of course they will never take over the world, but by making alliances and deals, creating a small defensive army and researching techs should be worth more points than the same things for a big country.
Yes you might get swallowed up by a large country that is a risk, but in the end, your points and 'winning' should be based on your achievements with respect to your starting position. That should make most country playable and enjoyable.
On a similar note, I also think that factories should have prereqs. Does it make sense for a small country to start making luxury clothes before it can produce Fabric? I don't think it makes sense for a country that doesn't even produce cotton to all of a sudden (with the right tech advance) to start importing and producing Luxury clothes.... but I'm not a historian
Why?
Surely the score should reflect the most powerful nations at the time, not the most improved from starting points.
Isn't the point of the game to measure power against the giants?
I always find my own goals for a game, the score does show who else is doing well though, not something I'd like to see changed.
So have two scores then, a 'power' ranking based on all countries and one which determines your victory points.
The point of the game can be whatever you want it to be and I agree with having your own goals for the game as I do as well. I can be happy with a ranking other than 1st place if I achieved what I wanted but some people can't and I think scoring based on your starting status and growth would make the smaller countries more playable to those who want to 'win'.
Well, I for once agree that this is a MAJOR FLAW in Victoria game engine.
Because even letting the minors countries with their 1835 settings will see them crash in less than a week, or month for the luckiest.
So how did they survive December 1834 ? and such how are we supposed to survive through the game ?
I have no problem with the lack of option for smaller countries, I have problem with the fact that plain economical survival isn't one. And the fact that they cannot survive with their starting force is a clear proof that there is something to be revised in the game engine for them.
Just check any of the not so great power countries and ask you :
- Is it any way for me to reach the army, the treasury and the product stocks they start with... answer is simple: NO.
Because even letting the minors countries with their 1835 settings will see them crash in less than a week, or month for the luckiest.
So how did they survive December 1834 ? and such how are we supposed to survive through the game ?
I have no problem with the lack of option for smaller countries, I have problem with the fact that plain economical survival isn't one. And the fact that they cannot survive with their starting force is a clear proof that there is something to be revised in the game engine for them.
Just check any of the not so great power countries and ask you :
- Is it any way for me to reach the army, the treasury and the product stocks they start with... answer is simple: NO.
I don't like this Freedom of Trade. I find it stupid everything depends on one single tech, and if you're unlucky you might have to research quite a few less important techs in the same category before you even get the option of FoT. I'd rather have the abilities to build certain factories split up into different techs than one single all-important one.
Yes, good point. It's not a good balancing decision, it makes the game like a lottery. You can also give up pretty much anything for that tech to other powers and still come out with the better bargain.
Yes thats a good issue "one tech to rule them all and in the darkness bind them"
Seems very strange many nations start with only being able to build winery or liquor factory, yet when you eventually research the tech, it allows you to build the majority of other factory types, including primitive ones like the lumber yard.
Changing this tech would help.
Gee, I dunno, maybe because the UK is richer the Punjab??? They didn't do it because they wanted to get away from handling monthly state bankrupcies, so I fail to understand why you even mention this?? This isn't even an argument...
Maybe you think so, but I think that even the tiniest country should be able to at least achive the most basic goal: Survive (YES, discounting any majors coming knocking).
No, every country shouldn't be equal. And yes, it's worth the time to make third world countries not go bankrupt every other month. It's simply stupid for it to be that way.
EU2 was Euro-centric, as was HoI to a lesser extent. But for some crazy reason, small countries survived, economically. They would usually be defeated by major nations, often didn't achive much, but survived, and WERE PLAYABLE.
Is it really so outragous to demand this for Viccy as well?
What, that rulers were willing to sell their kingdoms for cash? Perhaps because their economies could not put as much cash in their pockets as a quick bribe with Horsemen of King George. It doesn't say much for the RL economies of those nations now does it.
Do bankruptcies stop the nation from existing? In all the games I've seen Punjab has survived to the end.
No, but IMHO it should be very low on the priority list.
Realistic or not, Victoria is a game and in the game I think that every country should be able to at least make ends meet. Preferably by making RGOs more valuable.
You know you've got a problem when even AI-controlled countries are bankrupting every month. Let's not forget that even many European countries will crash and burn if you leave them to run for awhile on their starting settings.
I also agree that the root of the problem is the horribly flawed economy system. When China spends $1000 per month on education, that money isn't just vanishing into thin air, but is going into the economy (and some of it is even coming back as taxes).
I also agree that the root of the problem is the horribly flawed economy system. When China spends $1000 per month on education, that money isn't just vanishing into thin air, but is going into the economy (and some of it is even coming back as taxes).
I have thought a little on this (It is sad to see country like Ecuador go bankrupt sevent times in a row.).
What I would like to see (as one previous post mentions) is to spread a few of the more basic industries spread around the tech tree and not restricted to just FoT.
However those tech's would allow proto-industries (level 0.5 factories..perhaps Guild Based Industries would be a good tech for this), bascially you could create say a fabric factory (they have been around for a long time, Flanders was known for its cloth, like Venice was known for its glass), but this proto-factory could hold only one craftsman and one clerk.
This could simulate earlier more earlier methods of production, before huge factories came about. Then FoT could allow, with a few other techs distributing out the different factories, current level one factories.
What I would like to see (as one previous post mentions) is to spread a few of the more basic industries spread around the tech tree and not restricted to just FoT.
However those tech's would allow proto-industries (level 0.5 factories..perhaps Guild Based Industries would be a good tech for this), bascially you could create say a fabric factory (they have been around for a long time, Flanders was known for its cloth, like Venice was known for its glass), but this proto-factory could hold only one craftsman and one clerk.
This could simulate earlier more earlier methods of production, before huge factories came about. Then FoT could allow, with a few other techs distributing out the different factories, current level one factories.
The economic system isn't supposed to be a super-realistic simulation, it's an abstraction. These problems can be solved without changing the economic system, and I think the only reason to change the economy is if it makes the game more fun to play. And I doubt a change to a more "realistic" model will.
most nations were DOOMED in thsi era with little or no chance to compete historically..snowflake in hell comes to mind for their chances to survive let alone become a great power..why should we work to make it easier for them?
as for playability yes they can be played..depends on what sacrifices you are willign to make...heck you got no factories for long time why not try a bltizkrige campaign and invade other indian minors while taking bankruptcies..the negative prestige will hurt but in time you can overcome it through conquest of asian minors..keep britian friendly...if you watch the market and take the right provinces it is possible to build and grow..just slowly
as for playability yes they can be played..depends on what sacrifices you are willign to make...heck you got no factories for long time why not try a bltizkrige campaign and invade other indian minors while taking bankruptcies..the negative prestige will hurt but in time you can overcome it through conquest of asian minors..keep britian friendly...if you watch the market and take the right provinces it is possible to build and grow..just slowly