Hive said:The solution: 1-province Poland-Lithuania
/me hides for cover
thats a truly dangerous proposition indeed!
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thats a truly dangerous proposition indeed!
well, what about uniting Denmark with Greenland?Hive said:The solution: 1-province Poland-Lithuania
/me hides for cover
:rofl:
Herr Doctor said:well, what about uniting Denmark with Greenland?
great idea! indeed
Making Poland-Lithuania one province country would fix the problems with region limit certainly (merging Denmark with Greenland would not, these are in different regions, not to mention that it would screw up adjactencies heavily) but well, there are these things called historicity, gameplay and balance that I kind of have to think of as well Still, if I only had to simulate the period ~1470-1770 and stick to the way P-L was done in EU1 it would be almost feasible to make it 1 province. (Un)fortunately the game runs from 1419-1820, and AoI inspired me to make it fit for even longer playing time, so I have at least to simulate also the war with Teutons, the partitions and the Congres of Vienna to name just a few. And well, Sweden, Russia, Prussia, Ottomans and Austria need a playground to fight their wars in, which requires me to make Poland at least a bit more detailed Otoh I could merge Sweden into 1 province. Then we can for once and for all establish if Johan did add some hidden hardcoded bonus for it to always overperform or not
And well, my latest deadline schedule is probably again unrealistic. I'm still not entirely finished with the division of Europe (Russia and Caucasus left to fill in) and then still this is thus a map that I know already that it won't work because of the regionsize overflow so once I'm finished (hopefully today) I can start removing/merging provinces to bring it within the limit. Unfortunately Inferis' tools are not very efficient in regard to debugging the region limit (is checked on minject only and does not even return the actual region with overflow, nor the value for the amount of overflowing provinces...) so in worse case scenario this might take even a day or two to get it fixed. And then still shading, borders and all the other points from my schedule posted a few posts earlier need to be done, so well, expect at least one more week from today, and that's an optimistic estimate.
Still, if I only had to simulate the period ~1470-1770 and stick to the way P-L was done in EU1 it would be almost feasible to make it 1 province. (Un)fortunately the game runs from 1419-1820, and AoI inspired me to make it fit for even longer playing time, so I have at least to simulate also the war with Teutons, the partitions and the Congres of Vienna to name just a few. And well, Sweden, Russia, Prussia, Ottomans and Austria need a playground to fight their wars in, which requires me to make Poland at least a bit more detailed Otoh I could merge Sweden into 1 province. Then we can for once and for all establish if Johan did add some hidden hardcoded bonus for it to always overperform or not And well, my latest deadline schedule is probably again unrealistic. I'm still not entirely finished with the division of Europe (Russia and Caucasus left to fill in) and then still this is thus a map that I know already that it won't work because of the regionsize overflow so once I'm finished (hopefully today) I can start removing/merging provinces to bring it within the limit. Unfortunately Inferis' tools are not very efficient in regard to debugging the region limit (is checked on minject only and does not even return the actual region with overflow, nor the value for the amount of overflowing provinces...) so in worse case scenario this might take even a day or two to get it fixed. And then still shading, borders and all the other points from my schedule posted a few posts earlier need to be done, so well, expect at least one more week from today, and that's an optimistic estimate
.
Of course, but right now I'm really prepared to consider and properly evaluate even the most insane proposal to get around this problem...Hive said:
Well you COULD just abandon Paradox's projection and use one that lets you add more provinces.
I wonder how. It is either Europe being divided in 4 regions or into 6. Divided in 4 regions you pretty much get Germany in the middle and as such all its provinces count for the limit for all the regions because of the 512 pixel regions-overlap, just big enough for all of Germany for example... Divided into 6 regions Germany/Italy gets into the middle two regions which, including their own overlap now have to carry much of Europe. In both cases, in case of a detailed Germany and Italy, regionoverflow seems inevitable... (therefor, having analyzed your own map I wonder how you think to make it work. Care to enlighten me?)
I like what I see in your map project. How many provinces left to use? Any chance of adding Karelia- Ishtmus to Finland, since the city of Viborg is not really in Nyland, also would give Russia an extra core, since they conquered that ares from Sweden in the 1700s. Otherwise the finnish map is okay, and don't really need any changes, and I understand if you neglect changing backwater areas when your attention is needed to correct the Central European mess. When this map is ready I will definitely try it out, no matter what's the outcome. If you run out of tags merge some non- important searegions. There are enough of these already!
Kasperus said:
It might get a little tight, but we'll see how it goes. I may have to shunt over everything by about 1000 pixels to the right :/
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Well, I fixed my region-limit problem, so here a first preview, w/o finalized shading yet. Also I still need to revise/merge some seazones and adjust a bit north africa that I needed to move slightly southward to fit some rather crucial mediterranean islands on the map . This is planned to be finalized tomorrow.
I'm sure my naming is sometimes quite inconsequent, feel free to complain about it, who knows I might even change it. I did more or less tried to use popular names in case of territorial names, and native names if I used a city as provincename. However, often I simply took the name from original map.
Province distribution aimed, as always, on standard GC:
-Portugal +1, alike Castilla. Actually I'm most unhappy about my Spain, suggestions for change here welcome, but preferably w/o additions of new provinces as here I'm on region limit (in the north at least)
-France no new provs but revised existing in a way that mostly Brittany, Auvergne and Navarra will lose provinces which will go to France, England and/or Burgundy. Seems reasonable as the previous 3 wreach havoc throughout western Europe.
-Netherlands +3, that's +2 for the Republic later. No Liege, as it has no purpose and I wanted Repulic to have more provs than Spanish Netherlans.
-Germany, mostly as I kind of talked about with Bocaj. Hannover/Brunswick will have 3 at start now, Brandenburg as well (counting Neumark to BB as pdox did it), Saxonia even 4, but for post-1815 situation only 1 for them left. Had to adjust Elbe for that. Adjusted Oder even more to make something usable out of Silesia - Glatzer Neisse is the border between my Liegnitz and Oppeln. Bavaria can start with 4, or Nurnberg and Augsburg can be independant, depending on wish. Cleves and Westphalia all meant to represent the Cleves/Berg/Mark estates but Westphalia can also represents lands going to Cologne. No matter what, both are meant for Prussia later. Nassau and Trier are intended as my only new countries here. Austria should be obvious. I could not really adjust border for Mathias Corvinus' controlled area's due to region limit, same applies to vorpommern which I wanted to split. Well, too bad.
-Italy, +5 iirc, will strenghten mostly Venice and Tuscany. Did not add anything to Naples as I consider it to be only good for Spain to annex and a 5-prov Spanish possesion in Italy is already more than enough.
-Switzerland got +2 though both should be only acquired later. As such Graubunden is meant for Milan and Geneve for Savoy in the beginning.
-Scandinavia - here mostly changes for Denmark. Faroe was already added, also Bohusland, first for Denmark/Norway, later Sweden. No Fyn nor Halland in the end, regionlimit prevents any new provs in nw-region. Added the PTI as was suggested in discussion threads on scandinavia, mostly to rpevent direct Russian-Norwegian borders and limit Russo-Swedish wars to south-Finland only.
-Poland - +3, even +4 including the lands gained on Teutons. Essentially adjusted to simulate that war and the partitions, especially the 1st and 3rd, as well as being compatible for post-Vienna situation.
-Baltics - +1, Oselia, which was really a last minute addition that required me to remove Lake Geneva from the game. Memel became Samogitia so Prussia now only 1 prov, should be enough though. Could not simulate Dynaburg nor Riga due to, again, region limit.
-East Europe, here I actually added only 1 new id, for the rest reused the existing id's on the map. Mostly Lithuania and Muscovy might start now with more provinces in 1419, while all the other countries will be decimated. Both Crim Tatars and Kazan will probably end up with more provs than instandard GC though. Added some more PTI in southern Ural btw.
-Hungary, +1 prov, fit mostly to be nicely divided between Austria, Ottomans and Transylvania
-Balkans, +5 or +6, dunno even, gave mostly quite a few additional provinces to Ottomans. Lesbos is for Genua, for the loss of Kerch which I removed as separate province on the Crim. Naxos is meant for Venice, as is Ionia, I saw no reason to simulate the principalities here. Further followed the discussions in the forum on this area and drawed my conclusions.
-Asia Minor, +2, both for Ottomans. Not much to add I guess, other than I again looked mostly on what other 'specialists' designed for it.
-Caucasus, +2 provs here, again similar to the previous two. All territories I don't know much about and didn't bother to look further than how it fits with what Russia/Ottomans/Persia/othermayor should own at a given time. So quite a bit of a synthese of attempts of the likes Hive, Josip, MKJ, Chegitz and others who designed something for this region\
In general: used 47 new id's, removed about 10 existing. Region north-west is full so no new provs can be added to HRE, France, Britain, Scandinavia, Poland, Baltics, Hungary, or northern Spain. Other regions *might* have the possibility of additional provs being added. As such I am open for suggestions, but for additions I pretty much would like to hear which prov I can remove for it first. Though I might thus free up some space by merging some more seazones...
For an idea of region division that limits me thuis you can look at the division of standard eu-map as, especially in western Europe, I pretty much did stick to original projection. Below a link to such a map of regions in Europe uploaded by _tr for the Polish forum (I'm sure he does not mind sharing it with the community here though) In red the actual regionborders, in green the overlap area's around it.
http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=podzia322europy2yo.jpg
. This is planned to be finalized tomorrow. 
I'm sure my naming is sometimes quite inconsequent, feel free to complain about it, who knows I might even change it. I did more or less tried to use popular names in case of territorial names, and native names if I used a city as provincename. However, often I simply took the name from original map.
Province distribution aimed, as always, on standard GC:
-Portugal +1, alike Castilla. Actually I'm most unhappy about my Spain, suggestions for change here welcome, but preferably w/o additions of new provinces as here I'm on region limit (in the north at least)
-France no new provs but revised existing in a way that mostly Brittany, Auvergne and Navarra will lose provinces which will go to France, England and/or Burgundy. Seems reasonable as the previous 3 wreach havoc throughout western Europe.
-Netherlands +3, that's +2 for the Republic later. No Liege, as it has no purpose and I wanted Repulic to have more provs than Spanish Netherlans.
-Germany, mostly as I kind of talked about with Bocaj. Hannover/Brunswick will have 3 at start now, Brandenburg as well (counting Neumark to BB as pdox did it), Saxonia even 4, but for post-1815 situation only 1 for them left. Had to adjust Elbe for that. Adjusted Oder even more to make something usable out of Silesia - Glatzer Neisse is the border between my Liegnitz and Oppeln. Bavaria can start with 4, or Nurnberg and Augsburg can be independant, depending on wish. Cleves and Westphalia all meant to represent the Cleves/Berg/Mark estates but Westphalia can also represents lands going to Cologne. No matter what, both are meant for Prussia later. Nassau and Trier are intended as my only new countries here. Austria should be obvious. I could not really adjust border for Mathias Corvinus' controlled area's due to region limit, same applies to vorpommern which I wanted to split. Well, too bad.
-Italy, +5 iirc, will strenghten mostly Venice and Tuscany. Did not add anything to Naples as I consider it to be only good for Spain to annex and a 5-prov Spanish possesion in Italy is already more than enough.
-Switzerland got +2 though both should be only acquired later. As such Graubunden is meant for Milan and Geneve for Savoy in the beginning.
-Scandinavia - here mostly changes for Denmark. Faroe was already added, also Bohusland, first for Denmark/Norway, later Sweden. No Fyn nor Halland in the end, regionlimit prevents any new provs in nw-region. Added the PTI as was suggested in discussion threads on scandinavia, mostly to rpevent direct Russian-Norwegian borders and limit Russo-Swedish wars to south-Finland only.
-Poland - +3, even +4 including the lands gained on Teutons. Essentially adjusted to simulate that war and the partitions, especially the 1st and 3rd, as well as being compatible for post-Vienna situation.
-Baltics - +1, Oselia, which was really a last minute addition that required me to remove Lake Geneva from the game. Memel became Samogitia so Prussia now only 1 prov, should be enough though. Could not simulate Dynaburg nor Riga due to, again, region limit.
-East Europe, here I actually added only 1 new id, for the rest reused the existing id's on the map. Mostly Lithuania and Muscovy might start now with more provinces in 1419, while all the other countries will be decimated. Both Crim Tatars and Kazan will probably end up with more provs than instandard GC though. Added some more PTI in southern Ural btw.
-Hungary, +1 prov, fit mostly to be nicely divided between Austria, Ottomans and Transylvania
-Balkans, +5 or +6, dunno even, gave mostly quite a few additional provinces to Ottomans. Lesbos is for Genua, for the loss of Kerch which I removed as separate province on the Crim. Naxos is meant for Venice, as is Ionia, I saw no reason to simulate the principalities here. Further followed the discussions in the forum on this area and drawed my conclusions
.-Asia Minor, +2, both for Ottomans. Not much to add I guess, other than I again looked mostly on what other 'specialists' designed for it.
-Caucasus, +2 provs here, again similar to the previous two. All territories I don't know much about and didn't bother to look further than how it fits with what Russia/Ottomans/Persia/othermayor should own at a given time. So quite a bit of a synthese of attempts of the likes Hive, Josip, MKJ, Chegitz and others who designed something for this region
\In general: used 47 new id's, removed about 10 existing. Region north-west is full so no new provs can be added to HRE, France, Britain, Scandinavia, Poland, Baltics, Hungary, or northern Spain. Other regions *might* have the possibility of additional provs being added. As such I am open for suggestions, but for additions I pretty much would like to hear which prov I can remove for it first
. Though I might thus free up some space by merging some more seazones...For an idea of region division that limits me thuis you can look at the division of standard eu-map as, especially in western Europe, I pretty much did stick to original projection. Below a link to such a map of regions in Europe uploaded by _tr for the Polish forum (I'm sure he does not mind sharing it with the community here though
) In red the actual regionborders, in green the overlap area's around it.http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=podzia322europy2yo.jpg
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Meh, guess that's answers my question then - I was wondering why you included it in the first place on your mapHive said:No Nice province?
And you who claimed you designed your map with AoI in mind...
. Should have looked on some later maps before I guess. But anyway, what I said was that I want my map to be able to simulate the period after 1820. But after 1850 eu engine is too unrealistic to simulate anything well enough so 1850 is my timeborder for accuracy (especially if I have to fight regionoverflows and such as well). Also otherwise I would have to put a second HRE in the Balkans for example if I wanted to simulate the whole history till 1918 
Yikes to the utrecht province. Confusing if Utrecht and Overijssel/Drente are together or not. Gelre also looks a bit small. But it is a difficult situation if you want to have that extra province in N-netherlands How about Gelre and Utrecht in one province and Overijssel and Drent in another? or Drente and Groningen?
Also a Schelde but no Maas? You could have it running from the Rhine starting between Breda and Cologne, ending somewhere between Champagne and Luxembourg.
Also a Schelde but no Maas? You could have it running from the Rhine starting between Breda and Cologne, ending somewhere between Champagne and Luxembourg.
Kasperus said:Meh, guess that's answers my question then - I was wondering why you included it in the first place on your map
Nice was an important and highly contested harbour city even before France got it, though. Long before.
And Savoy could really use another province...
I can only say wow.
Well I can say two other little nitpicks...
1. Gibralter is REALLY small there, won't that be a nightmare to try and click?
2. Oberpfalz could also be named Mosbach. (Although Oberpfalz is still sort of correct for the north of that province and the top of Nurnberg...)
Well I can say two other little nitpicks...
1. Gibralter is REALLY small there, won't that be a nightmare to try and click?
2. Oberpfalz could also be named Mosbach. (Although Oberpfalz is still sort of correct for the north of that province and the top of Nurnberg...)
OK, updated Europe, now with full shading. Click for bigger version (on 1:2 scale)
Some changes since the first preview:
-removed (merged) some seazones which enabled me to add Viscaya, Fyn, Nice, Nis and Bessarabia. The first as apparently every other map-designer for Spain desperatly wanted it in, and it fixes my problems in north Spain somewhat; 2nd to finally give Denmark that 1 additional province to start the game with; 3rd as the argument to strenghten Savoy/Piemont convinced me after all; 4th and 5th to make Balkans somewhat more AoI compatible, also after 1850 (but don't ask me to try to simulate all the post-1878 Balkan wars..)
-added Maas as part of the Rhine, I obviously overlooked it earlier
-removed Utrecht, added Zwolle instead, to represent mostly Overijssel, but that name was too long.
-made Gibraltar a bit larger, though I think it would have been clickable anyway
Well, this map will work in game and I actually think I might be able to still add at least 1 more province in every region Need only to add borderlayer and make up some names for two GH provinces in the east...
edit: and I see I forgot to update some parts of the shading around the Kaspian sea actually, that will be thus also done with the above...
Some changes since the first preview:
-removed (merged) some seazones which enabled me to add Viscaya, Fyn, Nice, Nis and Bessarabia. The first as apparently every other map-designer for Spain desperatly wanted it in, and it fixes my problems in north Spain somewhat; 2nd to finally give Denmark that 1 additional province to start the game with; 3rd as the argument to strenghten Savoy/Piemont convinced me after all; 4th and 5th to make Balkans somewhat more AoI compatible, also after 1850 (but don't ask me to try to simulate all the post-1878 Balkan wars..)
-added Maas as part of the Rhine, I obviously overlooked it earlier
-removed Utrecht, added Zwolle instead, to represent mostly Overijssel, but that name was too long.
-made Gibraltar a bit larger, though I think it would have been clickable anyway
Well, this map will work in game and I actually think I might be able to still add at least 1 more province in every region
Need only to add borderlayer and make up some names for two GH provinces in the east...edit: and I see I forgot to update some parts of the shading around the Kaspian sea actually, that will be thus also done with the above...
Nice and Fyn.
Your map have a lot of good things, I must say. The best custom map I've seen so far, definately. Of course, I don't agree with *all* your decisions - like only giving Naples 2 provinces, making the Bulgaria province stretch to the sea, etc - but all in all, it's a damn impressive map.
It almost makes me consider going back to EU2 and AoI...
Your map have a lot of good things, I must say. The best custom map I've seen so far, definately. Of course, I don't agree with *all* your decisions - like only giving Naples 2 provinces, making the Bulgaria province stretch to the sea, etc - but all in all, it's a damn impressive map.
It almost makes me consider going back to EU2 and AoI...
Looking great Kasperus!
The PTI between Finland and Novgorod looks a bit weird tho'...
The PTI between Finland and Novgorod looks a bit weird tho'...