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mbuh

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Have you try talking to planetfall modder community?

I think they are you best hope because a lot of things you wanted here is achievable by the modding tools, some not exactly like you wanted, but quite close to it. These modders are also in discord. But i'm not sure whether they are still active or not today. The majority of them are not empire mode modders though, but maybe today there are more of them.
 

Draxynnic

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Yeah, I know. But how does it make sense that you lose everything, every time? And getting into 200 fights in a map, then going back to level 2, just... no thanks. Somewhere in between? Or just limit Empire Mode heroes, you get 1 or 2 per map, and that is it.
You say that like the first 1-2 heroes aren't the ones that have the most impact.

There's a degree to which, yes, it's a gameplay mechanic. But it could also be viewed as wanting to leave some resources behind to defend the newly claimed planet (might as well ask why you don't start a new planet with the leftover energy and cosmite of the last) and the hero having to adapt to the conditions of the new world.
 

coodav

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Have you try talking to planetfall modder community?
I think you may definitely be onto something. That is actually a hell of a good idea. I don't know if I can dead-lift an update like this, but maybe one of these guys can. I will check into that.

These modders are also in discord. But i'm not sure whether they are still active or not today.
Hm. We'll see.

There's a degree to which, yes, it's a gameplay mechanic. But it could also be viewed as wanting to leave some resources behind to defend the newly claimed planet (might as well ask why you don't start a new planet with the leftover energy and cosmite of the last) and the hero having to adapt to the conditions of the new world.
Yeah, sure. But then why send an empire hero at all? Why not level 1 every time? And if you did send them, would you not send them equipped? And why the discrepancy between campaign mode and empire mode? No, this decision just wasn't thought out. A level 20 hero is plenty busted, but enhancing the amount of busted currently focuses more on the units with it, or their ability to start capturing units from the go, not the hero itself. So those units which spread out their bonuses currently get the biggest boost. I don't believe that was their plan, or really the part of any plan at all.

This is really something that should be thought through. It would be neat if there were options to this too. More 'heat' on the sliding scale.
 

Draxynnic

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I think you may definitely be onto something. That is actually a hell of a good idea. I don't know if I can dead-lift an update like this, but maybe one of these guys can. I will check into that.


Hm. We'll see.


Yeah, sure. But then why send an empire hero at all? Why not level 1 every time? And if you did send them, would you not send them equipped? And why the discrepancy between campaign mode and empire mode? No, this decision just wasn't thought out. A level 20 hero is plenty busted, but enhancing the amount of busted currently focuses more on the units with it, or their ability to start capturing units from the go, not the hero itself. So those units which spread out their bonuses currently get the biggest boost. I don't believe that was their plan, or really the part of any plan at all.

This is really something that should be thought through. It would be neat if there were options to this too. More 'heat' on the sliding scale.
It takes 19 games to get a level 20 hero out the gate. You might say that you don't need that many for the hero to break the early game, but it still takes more than one.

Short answer for the discrepancy with campaign mode is that it's designed that way, but more generally: Most of the time, in campaign mode, the story is that you do whatever you do on the first campaign mission and then leave. In Empire Mode, though, you presumably generally still want to hold the planet you just conquered, so there's a need to leave material there to defend it.

Seriously, might as well ask why you can't just bring your entire army from one world to another. There's a point at which the answer is simply going to be "gameplay".
 

coodav

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Seriously, might as well ask why you can't just bring your entire army from one world to another. There's a point at which the answer is simply going to be "gameplay".
First off, there are a hundred reasons you won't send the entire army. For instance, like you just said, what happens to the planet once you leave? Will it just be taken right back? Can you afford to send the whole army? If you send an whole army, will they send a whole army? And of course, the obvious answer: "because I want to." Or - even better - just "because."

But, just logically, if you have a hero with 10,000 battles behind them, can you justify them starting at level 3? Like, they just conquered two planets teeming with dudes, used the highest level tech in the game in 100's of fights, and went through ten anomalies, saw worlds burn, and after all that, they start at level 3? Then, no matter what, at level 4 the next time? That is bad design. Completely breaks immersion on a hero.

You MUST at some point just think that these guys didn't think it through. I mean come on. And the disparity just focuses you more on advantages that are team-wide because you start with the exact same thing every time. So, not only is it a bad idea, it is a bad design, defies logic, and is boring. So, stop harping on that one. You MUST know that only goes so far.

but it still takes more than one.
It takes five. The level 6 talents are generally the ones that blow it up. Once you are there... you just steamroll.

But again, you really, really seem to hold the line here. SO WHAT if it takes 5 or 10 or whatever. You can't seriously be saying that we should tune the game to that number. It MUST be made for the long haul. If we are making a game to endure, it needs to take whatever figure you give it. If you have a hero that did 50 maps, that guy needs a challenge too. I really like my level 20's. I made them because they were awesome. It would be cool if they were challenged too.
 

Sandman25DCSSS

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This is getting ridiculous. Developers specifically limited power of heroes because they cared about balance.
Asking for "challenge" when you start with level 50 hero on second planet, level 100 hero on third planet and level 25000 on 50th planet is really weird. Planetfall is a strategy game, not RPG.
I have impression you just want to blame devs and you have no idea what you want.
 

coodav

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This is getting ridiculous. Developers specifically limited power of heroes because they cared about balance.
What balance?

Asking for "challenge" when you start with level 50 hero on second planet, level 100 hero on third planet and level 25000 on 50th planet is really weird. Planetfall is a strategy game, not RPG.
Don't recall asking for a level 50 hero. That said, don't you cap out completely at level 22 or 23?

And this is Empire Mode. Not sure if you are getting the word "Empire" in there. If you do, could you please tell me what you think that means? And more to the point, do you believe that it means 'start fresh every time?' Or do you thing you SHOULD start fresh every time? And if so, why don't you think they let you progress?

Homes, this is obviously, obviously, obviously just not thought out. There was a flat ton on the cutting room floor, and this was a great, and let me make sure I got that across; GREAT IDEA. But it was done halfway.

I have impression you just want to blame devs and you have no idea what you want.
Then back that up. Tell me what you don't think I know about this. What am I missing, and I bet you a shiny nickel that I find you a quote specifying exactly what I would like to see - or the opposite - or whatever.

Seriously my friend, don't be 'that guy.' I like the work they did, and as far as turn-based-strategy goes, they are competitive with anyone out there today. Simultaneously, don't tell me that they finished this product, because it should be self evident that it wasn't. Now if they finish it in AOW-PF, because I kind-of feel Gyped with the state of the game, that would be awesome. If it is in AOW4 where this comes together, that too is great. I just wish we got a bit more feedback.

And I am kind-of sick of AAA or at least AA+ games coming out half done. It feels like I am buying a bunch of Betas, that most of the time never get finished. And it is so close to something really, really cool.

So last chance for an 'a-men' on this? I just flipped to my side on this, right?
 

Sandman25DCSSS

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What balance?
Balance when you don't start with max power hero on all planets except first one. Balance when you become stronger with every planet and every planet is harder than previous one too.
And this is Empire Mode. Not sure if you are getting the word "Empire" in there. If you do, could you please tell me what you think that means? And more to the point, do you believe that it means 'start fresh every time?' Or do you thing you SHOULD start fresh every time? And if so, why don't you think they let you progress?
Empire means you try to build an empire by capturing more territory, it does not mean you become overpowered or even stronger. Alexander the Great hasn't created a-bomb or laser weapons fired from space no matter how much territory he captured, he just had more troops and probably slightly improved his tactics based on experience from previous battles.
Then back that up. Tell me what you don't think I know about this. What am I missing, and I bet you a shiny nickel that I find you a quote specifying exactly what I would like to see - or the opposite - or whatever.
That's easy. Developers created better balance than you do and they didn't suggest impossible requirements like "let me start as strong as I want on every planet after first one, but still make it so third planet is more challenging than second one". Basically you want to create the following sequence of your power : 1, max, max, max. max ... and then you expect AI to give you challenge like 1, max, A*max, B*max, C*max ... where 1 < A < B < C ...

I am not sure about you but I find it boring to use the same tactics/mods/units in every game. You make 90% of content irrelevant/obsolete. It's like starting Civ game with a-bombs, no research is left, most units are useless, unit building is pointless.
 
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coodav

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Balance when you don't start with max power hero on all planets except first one.
Oh, I thought you meant REAL balance. Not the complete blowout, but 'thank god the heroes don't start modded on turn 1' imbalance that we currently have.

Or the tech imbalance. Like basically starting with T4 units. Oh wait:

Screenshot (313).png


And certainly not like when I completely smoked my first opponent on turn 14 or some such with fully modded beast-mode units:

MAGA 14.png


Yeah, I didn't think you wanted to count that, because it was how the game currently is, and what I was suggesting must obviously be worse.

Or, when I just absolutely steamrolled the last opponent, getting to them about as fast as I could run:

Screenshot (302).png


With armies that were so grossly overpowered, in most fights I didn't even lose a hit point.

Or when I just completely blasted through with the Kir'Ko, starting with jacked scouts that would erase complete screens of dudes:

Screenshot (296).png


With Ascended Teachers and Heralds of Oblivion. Yeah, let's not talk about that balance, because that isn't convenient.

Or that I give a bunch of ways in which you could mitigate the impact of the first hero:

Yeah, right? I am thinking that you can only get X levels total per map makes the most sense, kind-of like in Campaigns. Maybe allow 7 additional levels per map 1-8 8-15 15-22 22-25. Lords carry over everything. I do think though that they should go to 25. Just allow your heroes to get all of the skills in the tree. That would allow you to change their build-out if it doesn't make sense, or you find that one item you have been looking for, without starting all the way over.

Or that I give a bunch of other ways, such as 1-empire hero / map or some such, to mitigate this. But whatever you do, DONT LET THAT HERO PORT OVER. I mean, that could really mess things up.

And heaven forbid that you could go into fights with major landmarks that were meant for mid- or late-game. Oh wait:

MAGA 10.png


Yeah, I already do that pretty much as fast as I can get to them. That was turn like... 9? I don't know, it hardly matters. Typically, they are no challenge at any time in the game, so I don't really notice.

But yeah, that hero, could you IMAGINE if it had started modded? I mean, I got modded crazy on turn maybe 5, but those 4 turns would have TOTALLY screwed things up, am I right?

Empire means you try to build an empire by capturing more territory, it does not mean you become overpowered or even stronger. Alexander the Great hasn't created a-bomb or laser weapons fired from space no matter how much territory he captured, he just had more troops and probably slightly improved his tactics based on experience from previous battles.
My brother, I am really struggling to figure out where you are going on this one. I mean, the way Alexander evolved his strategies and forces was the thing of legend, LITERALLY. His cavalry and implementation were crazy. And his empire ended a huge stretch from where it began:

1920px-MacedonEmpire.jpg


Credit Wikipedia; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great#/media/File:MacedonEmpire.jpg

And the resources he had, particularly after conquering Mesopotamia and Egypt, were... stunning. Nobody in the world could have stopped him, except the assassins who poisoned him, of course.

But let me just say, he didn't start over at level 2, with no mods, when he went into his second battle. So... did you mean to use this as an example against my argument?

I am not sure about you but I find it boring to use the same tactics/mods/units in every game. You make 90% of content irrelevant/obsolete. It's like starting Civ game with a-bombs, no research is left, most units are useless, unit building is pointless.
I am playing the game they gave me. And I don't use the same thing every time. Look above again, just in case. I do tend to enjoy the Psifish, because they are amazing for this type of playstyle, but I have a LOT of racial heroes maxed, if you would care to look.

But boil this all down, and you seem to be going in a horrific direction with this argument. The POINT of empire mode is to start upgraded. Alexander relied MORE on his cavalry as time went on. And it allowed him to fight vastly superior armies numerically, but still be victorious. And that sort of specialization helps define an empire. That MUST be the reason why they did what they did already.

But you are fighting for what? To allow turn-1 balance to exist where it definitely doesn't? To fight for that tiny stretch of games where your hero isn't game-breaking? And then ON TOP OF THAT, say that my ideas to change it up are MORE BORING than what you see above? Are you insane?

Here is exactly what I am saying: the current balance is weak. I have no trouble creating absolute blowouts, but with a handful of MODEST changes, this can be reversed, and the challenge maximized. I would very much like for them to integrate some or all of these thoughtfully. Barring that, maybe there are ways to mod the game, where we can play it in a more ideal form. I am less eager to do that, because I have enough work already, but it may be an option.

And yeah, maybe I harsh on them a bit more than I should, but it feels like they just didn't finish. Maybe that isn't fair, and maybe it is. So my bad if that comes through too strong.
 

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Sandman25DCSSS

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When did you have those units/mods/doctrines and amazing heroes? On second planet? Third planet? Empire mode is nicely balanced on first 10 planets or so, especially if you use new 5 heroes every time. If you use empire mode related mods (I've listed them a few times already), it can be balanced for much longer.
Similarly I don't demand devs to make me challenged after 2k hours, we have mods for that.

It seems you missed my argument about Alexander. He used roughly the same units and tactics in every combat, just more units. Empires are about quantity and not about quality.
 
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coodav

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When did you have those units/mods/doctrines and amazing heroes? On second planet? Third planet? Empire mode is nicely balanced on first 10 planets or so, especially if you use new 5 heroes every time. If you use empire mode related mods (I've listed them a few times already), it can be balanced for much longer.
I could do it now in maybe 5? Definitely no more than 7. Not sure though how long it took, that was a long time ago, which hopefully gives you an idea as to what we SHOULDN'T be trying to focus on.

Similarly I don't demand devs to make me challenged after 2k hours, we have mods for that.
Sure. Pretty hit-and-miss though.

It would be nice though, right? If they did?

It seems you missed my argument about Alexander. He used roughly the same units and tactics in every combat. Empires are about quantity and not about quality.
... mmmmmmmm ..... yeahhhhh.... but.... not really. Alexander, the guy you were talking about, was outnumbered probably 2:1 at the Battle of Gaugamela, but won.


Soooo....

It's about quality AND quantity, PLUS leadership. Super ambiguous, I know, but I just don't think there is a formula.

And I recall his forces were in great flux, particularly as he got close to India. I recall he lost a lot of it in the swamps, and the cavalry fared the worst during that time. It's been a while since I did that history, but I would bet a shiny nickel on it.
 

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Ok, the empire mode is balanced for 5 planets for you. It is probably more than average planetfall player plays.
I can only suggest agree to disagree about empires.
 

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First off, there are a hundred reasons you won't send the entire army. For instance, like you just said, what happens to the planet once you leave? Will it just be taken right back? Can you afford to send the whole army? If you send an whole army, will they send a whole army? And of course, the obvious answer: "because I want to." Or - even better - just "because."

But, just logically, if you have a hero with 10,000 battles behind them, can you justify them starting at level 3? Like, they just conquered two planets teeming with dudes, used the highest level tech in the game in 100's of fights, and went through ten anomalies, saw worlds burn, and after all that, they start at level 3? Then, no matter what, at level 4 the next time? That is bad design. Completely breaks immersion on a hero.

You MUST at some point just think that these guys didn't think it through. I mean come on. And the disparity just focuses you more on advantages that are team-wide because you start with the exact same thing every time. So, not only is it a bad idea, it is a bad design, defies logic, and is boring. So, stop harping on that one. You MUST know that only goes so far.
Have you considered that spending time in cold sleep or low gravity, then landing on a new world with a different gravity, different climate, different (albeit still habitable) atmosphere, and a different ecosystem (even if the game pulls from a limited range of wildlife for development practicality reasons) might require a bit of acclimatisation rather than landing and immediately being just as effective as you were on the world you fought on last?

In the real world, it takes weeks just to acclimatise to high altitudes (let alone timezones, climates, and so on) and we're talking about entirely different planets.

Having experience on multiple worlds likely speeds the process, since the more worlds you've been on the more likely that something will be at least close to what you've experienced before and the more experienced you'd be at acclimatisation in general, but that can be seen as being why heroes level at all (but while 'veteran' only gives you two extra levels).

A similar explanation probably applies to why you have to restart (most of) your research every new world. You get better at acclimatising your equipment with experience, but you probably can't just shift a gunship from one world to another with different gravity and atmospheric composition without making alterations.
It takes five. The level 6 talents are generally the ones that blow it up. Once you are there... you just steamroll.

But again, you really, really seem to hold the line here. SO WHAT if it takes 5 or 10 or whatever. You can't seriously be saying that we should tune the game to that number. It MUST be made for the long haul. If we are making a game to endure, it needs to take whatever figure you give it. If you have a hero that did 50 maps, that guy needs a challenge too. I really like my level 20's. I made them because they were awesome. It would be cool if they were challenged too.
Five... if you're always using the same heroes each time and speedrunning to the most powerful combinations off the bat.

I've already said that having more stuff at the top end would be good (but I think we have to acknowledge that this was a late experimental addition which might be refined further in a future project), but I think that there is value in keeping things closer to regular scenarios at least for a while rather than potentially going straight to starting with a level 20 hero with tier IV equipment on your second planetfall.

You seem to be looking at things in a binary fashion. Because you'll get to a point where you'll be able to break things, might as well jump straight to that point. But there is a middle ground of growing towards that rather than jumping straight there after an initial game that you'll draw out to get your level 20 heroes with ideal equipment.
 

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Ok, the empire mode is balanced for 5 planets for you. It is probably more than average planetfall player plays.
I can only suggest agree to disagree about empires.
You know Sandman, this might seem like a relatively easy exit, but it must be one of the most frustrating things that I have seen on this so far. I think you know that the balance on this is just... gone. I mean GONE. Zero left gone. But you "agreed to disagree"'d me. Man there is no agree to disagree. Look at those pics, Holmes. You DEFINITELY know that what I am saying is spot-on. Well, at least for me, and everyone that contributed to that video I posted. And probably you.

So, man, I don't want to harp on you about this, but... just... grrrrr.

Have you considered that spending time in cold sleep or low gravity, then landing on a new world with a different gravity, different climate, different... atmosphere, and a different ecosystem... might require a bit of acclimatisation rather than landing and immediately being just as effective as you were on the world you fought on last?
This is a Type 3 civilization. I assume that they have this solved. Plus, the game requires you to travel faster than light, and have life-saving tech. And of course, when you land, your dude looks like he/she is doing great:

Doing Fine 01.png


So... yeah. Just gotta roll with this. Everyone is good to go.

Five... if you're always using the same heroes each time and speedrunning to the most powerful combinations off the bat.
Yeah. I mean... sure. I'd rather not just waste time with it. Probably 10 games for the newbs. And it seems most people go straight for their preferred uber-build, so it probably doesn't take all that long to figure out.

I kind-of need to let this argument go unfought. My personal experience aside, this is where everything is headed in time. Then with that presumption, I am still going to hold the line on everything else: balance is busted, these ideas would un-bust it a bunch, and letting it go to infinity would give some level of replayability, no matter what you did.

Not sure if we crossed swords on that, but, you know, just in case.

I've already said that having more stuff at the top end would be good (but I think we have to acknowledge that this was a late experimental addition which might be refined further in a future project), but I think that there is value in keeping things closer to regular scenarios at least for a while rather than potentially going straight to starting with a level 20 hero with tier IV equipment on your second planetfall.
Yeah, that sounds good. So... common ground? This is rare.

You seem to be looking at things in a binary fashion. Because you'll get to a point where you'll be able to break things, might as well jump straight to that point. But there is a middle ground of growing towards that rather than jumping straight there after an initial game that you'll draw out to get your level 20 heroes with ideal equipment.
Mmmmmmm...

Sort of. I definitely want to do things at the high end currently. I don't have anything against the middle, but it just seems that this is one of those games where you just get to push it as far as you can, depending on where you are. Like the 'infinite dungeon.' It may be hard to figure out where you stand, but giving players the knobs is something that has been done a thousand times in other games. Hopefully we find a path through it.
 

Sandman25DCSSS

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I suggested to agree to disagree regarding Alexander's empire.
I don't see any problem with empire mode except it does not have advanced options like in random maps.
 

Draxynnic

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This is a Type 3 civilization. I assume that they have this solved. Plus, the game requires you to travel faster than light, and have life-saving tech. And of course, when you land, your dude looks like he/she is doing great:

View attachment 742396

So... yeah. Just gotta roll with this. Everyone is good to go.
Kardashev scale? 2 point something at most, and I don't think any Planetfall civilisation technically even manages to reach 2. They may have expanded outside a solar system, but it's largely presented as each planetfall being semi-independent, and we certainly don't seem to have Dyson spheres or the like indicating harvesting the entire energy of a solar system. Planetfall civilisations are still limited to worlds that are already fairly habitable - we don't see planetfalls on worlds like Venus or Mars or Jovian moons or Kuiper Belt Objects. It's a civilisation that's managed to spread to other solar systems while still being largely dependent on reasonably Earthlike worlds.

FTL travel exists, but only between locations with established gates - which is the whole reason the Vanguard exists. Void gate travel also doesn't seem to be a walk in the park (albeit not as bad as the Warp in 40K), and things like colonist cryopods suggest that a lot of people still cryosleep through void gate travel.

At the bottom line, though, this is a setting where technology is not presented as something which can overcome personal skill altogether, otherwise experience wouldn't be a thing at all. In this context - even something as simple as firing a gun is likely to be complicated by factors such as different gravity and atmospheric composition. Not hugely, to be sure, but likely enough to turn an accomplished marks(wo)man back into an average shooter until they relearn their skills.

There's a point at which it is likely a gameplay decision, but it's not as clearly illogical as you claim. In a fantasy setting, mind you, this would be harder to justify unless the mode involves jumping between worlds through the Shadow World or something.

I think there is a degree to which I think Empire Mode could have had more development of heroes than simply increasing in starting level, such as being able to remove flaws, develop more traits, and access more powerful options than normally available, but I don't think "effectively god after the first game" is the way to go.
Yeah. I mean... sure. I'd rather not just waste time with it. Probably 10 games for the newbs. And it seems most people go straight for their preferred uber-build, so it probably doesn't take all that long to figure out.

I kind-of need to let this argument go unfought. My personal experience aside, this is where everything is headed in time. Then with that presumption, I am still going to hold the line on everything else: balance is busted, these ideas would un-bust it a bunch, and letting it go to infinity would give some level of replayability, no matter what you did.

Not sure if we crossed swords on that, but, you know, just in case.
Well, I think some context is needed here. You're a person who makes videos on finding the most optimised combinations, and part of a sub-community that also does so. Most people are probably going to do a bit of experimentation before they start focusing on going for a preferred uber-build.

Another important piece of context here, I think, is that Empire Mode arrived in what was close to the last major update to Planetfall. By the time Empire Mode arrived, players had plenty of opportunity to identify the best combinations to use with everything short of the final expansion. Empire Mode does allow for some combinations that wouldn't normally be practical, but otherwise, in a lot of ways Planetfall was already a solved problem for some people when Empire Mode first came out.

If something like Empire Mode emerges in a future project, though, it'll likely be available right from the beginning - and in that context, everyone will be starting from the beginning, or some point close to the beginning after completing the initial campaign (but hey, maybe we'll get ALL the campaign heroes ported into a future Empire Mode rather than just the protagonist of the final expansion). So instead of jumping into it already having solved the game, there'll be space for a few dozen games to experiment with things before the most optimised options get identified (and some people will prefer not to jump straight to them even once they're identified, because they want to try out other things even if they're not the most optimal). And if this comes at the initial release of a future game, there'll be opportunity to layer more complexities to challenge the most experienced players with highly developed empires as more content is produced.
Yeah, that sounds good. So... common ground? This is rare.
There is a tendency for many discussions to focus on the disagreements.

So yeah - adding more challenges for more advanced players and empires to tackle is something I can definitely get on board with. Planetfall didn't pull that off and unfortunately there's no more active development (outside of mods), but that's simply a matter of resources - adding more challenges to the top end would definitely be worthwhile. I think it should be optional - players should have the opportunity to play an easier game with a combination they're not used to playing if they choose to - but I think the current way the Empire Mode planets are set up with a range of challenge levels does that well. There just needs to be more room for more extreme challenges at the top.
Mmmmmmm...

Sort of. I definitely want to do things at the high end currently. I don't have anything against the middle, but it just seems that this is one of those games where you just get to push it as far as you can, depending on where you are. Like the 'infinite dungeon.' It may be hard to figure out where you stand, but giving players the knobs is something that has been done a thousand times in other games. Hopefully we find a path through it.
And once someone's played a hundred scenarios, they're going to be well past the middle. It's mostly a question of how long the early/middle phase should be (and faster experience gain from taking on greater challenges would naturally speed that up).

There's definitely room for more knobs - like I've said a couple of times now, I think it would definitely benefit from a system that allows empire heroes to develop in ways beyond simply rising in starting level. I could see one such option even being "Maintain this hero's equipment between scenarios" as an expensive choice from the equipment category. However, similar to how starting with a powerful hero costs as much (or more) than the option to start with a more powerful army, choosing to retain equipment between scenarios might cost as much as the hero being able to start a scenario with an extra stack of units or several hundred extra energy or something like that. Basically make it another knob you can choose (and which carries an opportunity cost) rather than something that happens automatically.
 

coodav

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If something like Empire Mode emerges in a future project, though, it'll likely be available right from the beginning - and in that context, everyone will be starting from the beginning, or some point close to the beginning after completing the initial campaign... ...And if this comes at the initial release of a future game, there'll be opportunity to layer more complexities to challenge the most experienced players with highly developed empires as more content is produced.
Right there. THAT is exactly what I am looking for. I mean, OF COURSE.

And this was basically what happened with Hades. You go through hades like... i don't know... 30 times, then you get the first major ending. But that's not all! Then you have a second ending, and a third, stacked right on top. THAT is what we need. And to ensure that you are constantly progressing, the only way you can get the higher ends, you have to jack up the difficulty. You don't have to, but if you don't, you don't unlock the other endings. So yeah, there is something for the short term, and something for the long term.

That is spot-on, exactly, perfectly, what I am talking about. I mean, how on Earth would they do anything else? In the new Empire mode, you build the campaigns right into the system, and give some actual feel of progression to the large number of single player guys out there.

But of course, the only way to get the entire thing together is to get that mod system up and running. That means PUT THE FREAKING DIALS INTO THE GAME!!!!!

rrrRRRRAAAAA!!!!

It is so obvious!

*ahem* Yes... *mhhmmm* yes, rant over. Something like that would be nice.

Kardashev scale? 2 point something at most,
Yeah, but the scale is really this:

The scale has three designated categories.

A Type I civilization, also called a planetary civilization—can use and store all of the energy available on its planet.
A Type II civilization, also called a stellar civilization—can use and control energy at the scale of its planetary system.
A Type III civilization, also called a galactic civilization—can control energy at the scale of its entire host galaxy.

Credit Wikipedia:

Since this is really a galactic empire, I just pulled that out of my butt. Thing is, there are still humans, in human form, running around and flying airplanes like you would a fighter jet. I SERIOUSLY doubt that is our future. But to have a game like this, with heroes and soldiers, you have to jam super-high end tech together with a World War II movie. It is ludicrous from the start. So don't pee in my Cheerios, please. Thank you.

There just needs to be more room for more extreme challenges at the top.
For now, that would be cool. And I would like to take a moment to say to them:

I have put up with the limitless BS of the buggy game so far, I am just saying, if you felt like tossing in a few things, you would be my best fried adjacent. Like a really good friend.

Like Raye's song.


At a minimum.

Maybe even a little better.

Soooo....

And once someone's played a hundred scenarios, they're going to be well past the middle. It's mostly a question of how long the early/middle phase should be (and faster experience gain from taking on greater challenges would naturally speed that up).
It's not that where I am with this is normal, it's that there is no content at all for the endgame. There is a giant flat, tall brick wall you hit once you get there. That hurts my feelings. And I am sensitive.

I was just thinking that they could give some sort of infinitely scaling system, just to keep us happy. Or one of the many things I suggested on the Original Post.