The white Dominions

[crazy canuck]

Originally posted by Timothy Ortiz
Rather than lay rail across 2,000 miles of uninhabited Canada to reach B.C., the U.S would just have to lay track north from Oregon. It couldn't have cost that much, I'm definitly annexing them when I play the U.S.

Maybe good on paper but put yourself in their shoes. The Americans had just completed their Transnational Railway in 69. I doubt the American Federal Government had much of a stomach to expend a lot of money to extend the track just to acquire some more wilderness. After all providing the rail line was a close run debate in Canada.

 

[Tim O]

Originally posted by Legate
Yes, after the US annexes canada in 1865 they will be given privilege of fighting alongside their fellow Americans in 1914 against the Brits and frogs. Trust me it you’ll enjoy it I’m sure it will be quite therapeutic for various reasons..... Daddy didn't love me and my family always spoiled Pierre.

Would the entrance of British Columbia into the Union so destroy relations with the British Empire that America would have fought with Germany? I very much doubt it. We would have remained nuetral or joined the Allies as we did historicly. Although I as a player would likely do just that in order to grab the rest of Canada.

 

[crazy canuck]

Originally posted by Timothy Ortiz
Would the entrance of British Columbia into the Union so destroy relations with the British Empire that America would have fought with Germany? I very much doubt it. We would have remained nuetral or joined the Allies as we did historicly. Although I as a player would likely do just that in order to grab the rest of Canada.

I agree.

By the 1870's Britain was pretty apathetic toward what was going on in the Mainland of what was to become B.C. They may have cared more about Vancouver Island but not much more.

You can use as your guide the reaction Britain made when Oregan and Washington State joined the Union. Both territories could easily have been claimed by Britain but there was little or no reaction.

 

[Tim O]

WHat made Vancouver island so important to them? Without the rest of British Columbia it wouldn't be worth much.

 

[crazy canuck]

Originally posted by Timothy Ortiz
WHat made Vancouver island so important to them? Without the rest of British Columbia it wouldn't be worth much.

It was where the bulk of the British colonists settled. Also Victoria (the city not the game), located on Vancouver Island, was the main settlement and the seat of the British Governor.

And actually Vancouver Island is quite large. Similar in size to England. It could easily have formed its own Province or State for that matter.

 

[Tim O]

I'm looking at the map that takes up my entire western wall and while Victoria is large it's more a kin to the size of Wales then England.

 

[Dark Knight]

Vancouver Island has an area of 12,408 square miles (32,137 sq. km).

So it's nearly as large as the Netherlands (33,883 sq. km), but certainly not England (130,410 sq. km).

 

[Earl Uhtred]

Whew. We're not as insignificant as all that

 

[crazy canuck]

Originally posted by Dark Knight
Vancouver Island has an area of 12,408 square miles (32,137 sq. km).

So it's nearly as large as the Netherlands (33,883 sq. km), but certainly not England (130,410 sq. km).

I said similiar not the same.

Anyway the point is that Vancouver Island was viable as an independent territory. Heck, look at how well the Netherlands have done.

 

[Tim O]

How was Vancouver Island viable without the rest of British Columbia? What would it be exporting? Cut off from the rest of Canada it would take great effort to supply from the sea.

 

[stnylan]

Originally posted by Timothy Ortiz
How was Vancouver Island viable without the rest of British Columbia? What would it be exporting? Cut off from the rest of Canada it would take great effort to supply from the sea.

No worse than Hong Kong, for example. Or Diego Garcia, the Falklands, or any other of the coaling stations/bases that Britain had dotted around the world.

The BE depended on having a lot of bases all over the place. imo they would wanted to have kept the island for that reason, rather than any other.

 

[Tim O]

Hong Kong, Diego Garcia, and the Falklands are all positioned to place military leverage on weak third world states or to back up their own colonies. Diego Garcia and Hong Kong anchored Britain's naval position off Indian sub-continet and Southeast Asia respectivly, while the Falklands were in great position to controll Cape Horn which was very important before the Panama canal was built.

What strategic interest would Vancouver be guarding?
It is obvious that a naval base there would be very vulnerable to the up and comming U.S. Navy. It would be pointless.

 

[crazy canuck]

Originally posted by Timothy Ortiz
How was Vancouver Island viable without the rest of British Columbia? What would it be exporting? Cut off from the rest of Canada it would take great effort to supply from the sea.

I am not sure what you mean by cut off from the rest of Canada. Canada at that time was thousands of miles away across the Rockies and praire with not much in between B.C. and present day Ontario. And my friends in the rest of Western Canada should not get to upset about this comment. There was not much in B.C. at the time either.


Second Vanouver Island was in a better position to export then the rest of B.C. because it had a developed harbour. The rest of B.C. had virtually no infrastructure or viable transportation links.

Vancouver had, and still has today a thriving lumber economy, despite new US tarrifs and developed - and still has - mining operations.

Despite my slight exaggeration before Vacouver Island is really quite large - in comparison to say States on the eastern sea board.

 

[crazy canuck]

Originally posted by stnylan
No worse than Hong Kong, for example. Or Diego Garcia, the Falklands, or any other of the coaling stations/bases that Britain had dotted around the world.

The BE depended on having a lot of bases all over the place. imo they would wanted to have kept the island for that reason, rather than any other.

I suppose the other point to make is that Vancouver Island had a viable self sufficient settlement that did not require outside supply - with the exception of the normal commerce for items it did not produce itself, such as luxury goods.

 

[crazy canuck]

Originally posted by Timothy Ortiz
Hong Kong, Diego Garcia, and the Falklands are all positioned to place military leverage on weak third world states or to back up their own colonies. Diego Garcia and Hong Kong anchored Britain's naval position off Indian sub-continet and Southeast Asia respectivly, while the Falklands were in great position to controll Cape Horn which was very important before the Panama canal was built.

What strategic interest would Vancouver be guarding?
It is obvious that a naval base there would be very vulnerable to the up and comming U.S. Navy. It would be pointless.

I think you may have answered your own question. The main strategic insterest in held was keeping the Americans out.

 

[Tim O]

With Americans in the rest of British Columbia the British aren't going to keep the Americans out of Vancouver for very long if they wanted to get in. Sail the Pacific fleet up from San Diego and that is the end of a Vancouver off of a American-British Columbia.

 

[The Andy-Man]

but the US was never economically capable of beating Britain in a long term war untill the 1880's, but which time an invasion of canada would probably mean the US has to deal with most of europe.

but back on topic

should the dominion status's be acheived through events, or should the brit govt. be able to release them as such, or both?

 

[Tim O]

If I conquered Canada, could I set up an "Independent" Republic of Quebec and keep the rest like America does in the great war series? I don't want to hav4e to deal with all those Frenchmen.

 

[unmerged(5664)]

You seem very militaristic there Tim. If there's one thing that we didn't see a lot of was out and out wars of conquest. I would sure hope that if the US tried to invade British North America (or Britain tried to reclaim its lost 13 colonies) that the rest of the world would intervene to restore a Metternichian balance...

 

[Tim O]

I'll just demand the whole Oregon territory as Polk promised to do, if the Brits don't back down and let me have it and war breaks out I'll take as much of Canada as I can get.

You haven't answered my question though, can I set up a puppet Republic of Quebec? I guess in EU2 terms it would be realesing a vassal.