The Westminster System - A British Interactive AAR

[ThaHoward]

So what happened to Conservative miniority government supported by Liberals?

 

[Tommy4ever]

So what happened to Conservative miniority government supported by Liberals?

Changes in seat compositions.

You'd need Labour-Liberal cooperation to be unworkable and the Tories stronger. As it stands the combined Tory-UUP-Liberal seat tally would be just shy of a majority whilst Labour is a more attractive partner.

A slight shift in votes could put a Conservative minority government, supported by the Liberals, back on the cards.

 

[Andarak]

((Heh, I don't think dom Contravarius has truly ever hated anyone (exept for Maggie, of course), it has always been more of a impractical desire to destroy and spread despair, even the anti-semitism part. ...And, now that the Bronze Age of dom Contravarius has ended, I think it's time for a Caesaropope who has a more pragmatical and maybe philosophical approach to life and politics. I've unified all these teachings into one, I've created Ultratotalitarianism, now it's time for the Heroic Age of Caesaropapism to start.

How about 007: The Fantastic Sphere of Peril? As you can see, I took more of an poetic approach.))

((How about Perilsphere? There was this one Bond movie called Thunderball.
I guess that I can't convince you and your fellow paper hats to join top hats in the next election and vote Tory? I would like to see two historical Tory majorities after this election, and, you know, Liberals are plotting. Just think about it - crushing unions, glorious defence of Falklands, fighting the Reds... How can you say "No" to this?

And after Maggie I would go BNF/NF. Don't really like this Major guy.))

 

[LordTempest]

((No, I actually would be perfectly OK with Labour victory now, and I'm seriously considering voting for Labour just because I think it would be good thing for the story - while I remain top hat and I think that Tories policies are the best for Britain, I'm mostly concerned about the story, which I mentioned several times already. That's why it saddens me that some people treat those iAARs like actual politics. But you make a fine point, while I still despise Liberals this discussion is indeed better than another economy debate.))

Someone needs to stop being so contradictory.

This is presuming, of course, that we can come up with a suitable programme for government.

Personally I would recommend:

An agreement to privatise state-owned industries which are making a loss No, all industries should be treated on a case by case basis. It would be sheer idiocy to privatise any industry which provides an essential service, such as British Rail, if it were making a loss, just because it were making a loss.
A referendum on entry to the EEC That's out of Britain's hands. A referendum on whether or not we should seek entry into the EEC might be better
A reduction in the basic rate of income tax and the abolition of business rates in favour of a basic land value tax on non-residential land No.
The setting up of Industry Pay Board containing representatives of employers and of unions to negotiate pay settlements Fair arbitration for workers sounds like a Labour policy!
Reform of Northern Ireland's institutions, including the introduction of PR This might be needed urgently in light of current circumstances.
The introduction of regional assemblies with control over infrastructure spending in order to boost economically deprived parts of the country Definitely not.
A 50/50 split in cabinet seats and ministries No, those are decided by Tommy and we shouldn't seek to throttle him.
A mutual power of veto over any policy proposal not included in the programme for government same as above, that sort of thing is out of our hands

 

[Andarak]

Someone needs to stop being so contradictory.

Eh? Didn't you mistake me with Antonine?

 

[ThaHoward]

...

((If you want the same events as irl, you're in the wrong place. The shift to the right from the center have already happened in this timelime, it happened 10 years earlier than irl. Face it, or leave it If Labour wins we will probally not see the right shift/thathcer, as then the rigtists in Tory party have been defeated and go back to the center policies of One Nation.))

 

[LordTempest]

Eh? Didn't you mistake me with Antonine?

Nope.

If Labour wins we will probally not see the right shift/thathcer, as then the rigtists in Tory party have been defeated and go back to the center policies of One Nation.))

Unlikely. We still have one more election to go before the decade is out, and I'd expect Thatcher to be the leader by then. If she wins, much Thatcherism; if she loses, she's finished and Niko dies a broken soul.

 

[Andarak]

((If you want the same events as irl, you're in the wrong place. The shift to the right from the center have already happened in this timelime, it happened 10 years earlier than irl. Face it, or leave it If Labour wins we will probally not see the right shift/thathcer, as then the rigtists in Tory party have been defeated and go back to the center policies of One Nation.))

((Not really want the same events, I just would like to see those two Maggie's governments. Don't really get this suposition that Tories would go centre again, Powell was steamrolled by LibLab after the faction struggle and Tories didn't go full ON again.))

Nope.

Then what's the point of quoting me and Antonine in one post?

 

[Contravarius]

((How about Perilsphere? There was this one Bond movie called Thunderball.
I guess that I can't convince you and your fellow paper hats to join top hats in the next election and vote Tory? I would like to see two historical Tory majorities after this election, and, you know, Liberals are plotting. Just think about it - crushing unions, glorious defence of Falklands, fighting the Reds... How can you say "No" to this?))

((Phehe, nice try. And the Silver Age Caesaropope would've agreed with you. But honestly, I'm thinking about voting commies again if this whole NF thing doesn't work out.))

 

[LordTempest]

Then what's the point of quoting me and Antonine in one post?

If I have to quote seventeen different posts, should I make seventeen separate posts one after the other in close succession? Don't be silly.

 

[99KingHigh]

Nope.



Unlikely. We still have one more election to go before the decade is out, and I'd expect Thatcher to be the leader by then. If she wins, much Thatcherism; if she loses, she's finished and Niko dies a broken soul.

Or Thatcher throws a coup and kills all the Argentinians.

 

[LordTempest]

Or Thatcher throws a coup and kills all the Argentinians.

Or Grimond throws a coup and kills all the Liberals. Yes, that man is that evil.

 

[John Forseti]

• An agreement to privatise state-owned industries which are making a loss
• A referendum on entry to the EEC
• A reduction in the basic rate of income tax and the abolition of business rates in favour of a basic land value tax on non-residential land
• The setting up of Industry Pay Board containing representatives of employers and of unions to negotiate pay settlements
• Reform of Northern Ireland's institutions, including the introduction of PR
• The introduction of regional assemblies with control over infrastructure spending in order to boost economically deprived parts of the country
• A 50/50 split in cabinet seats and ministries
• A mutual power of veto over any policy proposal not included in the programme for government

Given that it seems Labour might be providing 80% of the potential government's seats it's interesting how heavily your proposals favours your own party. I particularly like the bit where they get half the government, a veto on policy and a free pass at sweeping constitutional change!

Also what is this obscession about loss in state industries? They're not there to make a profit, they're there to provide a public service! Or in some cases, main control of key strategic interests.

 

[ThaHoward]

Given that it seems Labour might be providing 80% of the potential government's seats it's interesting how heavily your proposals favours your own party. I particularly like the bit where they get half the government, a veto on policy and a free pass at sweeping constitutional change!

Also what is this obscession about loss in state industries? They're not there to make a profit, they're there to provide a public service! Or in some cases, main control of key strategic interests.

Or we can see what happened in Germany. The Steel and Coal industries became unprofitable. They became more mechanized etc. What happened? Did it cause mass unemployment? No, the workers and service sector simply moved from Ruhr tothe south and focused on other industries,like automobile industries, electronics, plastic industries and so on. This caused for a more vibrant market, more competetive industries, higher exports and increased real wages for every class in society. Keeping failing industries for the sake of keeping them also lead to major economical problems, both for the macro economics and the average worker.

What you want to do is to hold into the British conservatism and artificially keep dying industries alive for the sake of having them alive. That cause many problems, as decreased production, decreased real wages, negative trade balance and so on. It is therefore more wiser to accept the new changes, let the market handle the new changes and conjectures, and instrad support rescooling of the workers and clerks, and let them take part in the new industries like the electronics. It is not going bad with the British industry because of the market, but rahter tradiotionalism, fear of change and a static economy.

Let us unleash our potential, let us let the workers reschool and work in sectors that so desperatley need workforce and will help us becoming an economic superpower once more.

Let us get a more adaptable and flexible economy that will benefit all - blue collar woker, white collar worker or even capitalists.

 

[LordTempest]

Given that it seems Labour might be providing 80% of the potential government's seats it's interesting how heavily your proposals favours your own party. I particularly like the bit where they get half the government, a veto on policy and a free pass at sweeping constitutional change!

Look, if there is to be a partnership of principle then both sides have to come to a compromise. Antonine is simply listing the liberal policies he would prefer a hypothetical Lib-Lab pact to put forth; I don't think he's suggesting the party's entire manifesto.

Also what is this obscession about loss in state industries? They're not there to make a profit, they're there to provide a public service! Or in some cases, main control of key strategic interests.

This. Whether or not an industry should be privatised or nationalised should be decided on a case by case basis.

 

[Andarak]

If I have to quote seventeen different posts, should I make seventeen separate posts one after the other in close succession? Don't be silly.

Sure, I get it, but seeing that you quoted me and Antonine and didn't comment Antonine's post (oh, nevermind, you did, I thought that you just boldened Antonine's text) it kinda looks as if you were comparing his and mine posts.
((And how am I contradictory? I think that Labour victory in this election would be good for the story, but that doesn't mean that I agree with Labour policies - on the contrary, I disagree with them, although I have to admit that some of them don't sound bad for me. And this, again, doesn't mean that in the next election I will be still thinking that Labour will be best for the story.))

 

[Andrzej I]

So what happened to Conservative miniority government supported by Liberals?

Again, evidence that several Liberals do not favor any accord with Labour. Shame.

 

[LordTempest]

Sure, I get it, but seeing that you quoted me and Antonine and didn't comment Antonine's post it kinda looks as is you were comparing his and mine posts.

Go back and read the bolded parts of that quote, those are my replies.

((And how am I contradictory? I think that Labour victory in this election would be good for the story, but that doesn't mean that I agree with Labour policies - on the contrary, I disagree with them, although I have to admit that some of them don't sound bad for me. And this, again, doesn't mean that in the next election I will be still thinking that Labour will be best for the story.))

That's how. You complain when people treat the elections like "real politics" and don't do what's best for the story and then you talk about policies!

 

[ThaHoward]

Again, evidence that several Liberals do not favor any accord with Labour. Shame.

And I have never said I support the current Labour platform.

 

[Antonine]

Here is my response to those comments from Mr Tanzhang:

This is presuming, of course, that we can come up with a suitable programme for government.

Personally I would recommend:

No, all industries should be treated on a case by case basis. It would be sheer idiocy to privatise any industry which provides an essential service, such as British Rail, if it were making a loss, just because it were making a loss. Fine, but only if there's agreement that loss-making, non-essential service providing industries are definitely to be privatised either by being sold off or mutualised.
That's out of Britain's hands. A referendum on whether or not we should seek entry into the EEC might be better In that case we should seek entry and, if entry is possible, then we should hold a referendum on whether we should join.
No. Yes. Income tax cuts will help workers struggling with the cost of living due to wage restraint and price inflation. Furthermore, some form of Land Value Tax has to be implemented as it's a key Liberal policy - that's why I proposed using it to replace business rates. If you don't like that form of it then come up with an alternative.
Fair arbitration for workers sounds like a Labour policy! Odd then that I have consistently argued for it while Labour has said nothing
This might be needed urgently in light of current circumstances. Agreed
Definitely not. The further decentralisation of power is a crucial Liberal policy. You can't expect us to go into coalition without concessions of some sort.
No, those are decided by Tommy and we shouldn't seek to throttle him. Fair enough.
not included in the programme for government same as above, that sort of thing is out of our hands Again, fair enough.