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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning
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Ticket Cookie

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In that case is anyone else willing to view Liberal in exchange for a photo of myself wearing a dress? :p

May I take the deal?
I will probably vote National Front if I can't, if only to give Contra his chance. (And because the Tories should be much less stable with competition on their right!)
I gave one vote to Enewald, I may give one to Antonine or Contra :p
 

John Forseti

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Why this piece of trivia should interest anyone is beyond me though.

 
Last edited:

etranger01

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I'm a Polandball! :D
 

alxeu

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The National Front?

Sounds fun, but I think I'll keep with the party that has a chance in the elections, and fits my political beliefs more closely, thank you.
 

99KingHigh

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My own side of the story.

 

Somberg

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I'm a Polandball! :D

We are all Polandballs, except me. :(

I really don't say enough in here, though. Just quietly vote for the best leftist party and then watch everyone yell at each other. I also have some tomatoes that I will be throwing at images of Powell. Any and all non-communist lefties can join me, except Antonine. I don't like that guy at all.
 

Contravarius

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Contra, man, pretty sure you're in violation of forum policy with that one.
Gah, again with this crap? Just had to come in and ruin all the fun, didya? Okay, when I get back from my daily dealings, I'll upgrade it to two talking marks and two squares like a good and politically correct little forumite.

"Where Contravarius goes, unwanted controversy follows."
 
Last edited:

99KingHigh

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Gah, again with this crap? Just had to come in and ruin all the fun, didya? Okay, when I get back from my daily dealings, I'll upgrade it to two talking marks and two squares like a good and politically correct little forumite.

"Where Contravarius goes, unwanted controversy follows."

It's what happens when you break the sacred Jew trust.
 

Contravarius

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It's what happens when you break the sacred Jew trust.
It would've been REALLY unwise of the Jews to trust me in the first place, phaha. I mean, really.
 

99KingHigh

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It would've been REALLY unwise of the Jews to trust me in the first place, phaha. I mean, really.

These Estonians these days...can't even leave em alone for five seconds before they start have Pan-Germanic attacks...
 

Andarak

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Duck Anti-Antisemitism and Zionism, We should of created a jewish state out of a predominately jewish area of Prussia or Poland not a settler jewish state in Palestine.

I guess that you didn't hear about Holocaust. After WW II Poland consist almost solely of Poles. Let me also remind you that in 1974 Poland is still communist and you might not want to antagonise country with the second biggest army in Warsaw Pact if you care so much about communism.

The National Front?

Sounds fun, but I think I'll keep with the party that has a chance in the elections, and fits my political beliefs more closely, thank you.

I strongly advise that all Tory voters stay with the Conservative Party. While NF definitely sounds fun, (and I would probably vote for them if they promised dissolution of Liberal Party), the Right needs to stand united against centre-left.
 
Last edited:

Enewald

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1. Yes, that's acceptable. Once the power over the future of the businesses has been placed in the hands of the workers then it's up to them how they do it. The main thing would be to enact legislation to enable the government to block hostile takeovers by foreign companies of industries which involve national assets (specifically the utilities).

2. Agreed.

3. Not to get into too much detail but Land Value Taxation is about taxing the market income that land could provide. So if you own 50 acres of farmland then you would be taxed based on the unimproved value (which is easy enough to assess) of that land in that part of the country, disregarding the value of any buildings or other imrpovements on it. So if you own 50 acres of land and don't do anything with it then you'll be faced with a tax bill which you won't have any income to pay, forcing you to either put the land into use or to sell it. On the other hand, if you invest in land you own to increase it's value then you will receive the direct benefit from that land. Similarly, while a first home will not be taxed, if you are a slum landlord then you will benefit financially if you invest in improving your properties to increase the income you get from them as that increase will be tax free. In short, LVT taxes unimproved land, rather than income, and provides an incentive to invest in land and for absentee landowners to divest land which they are hoarding. Furthermore, by taxing unimproved value of land then tax will be paid to help cover the costs of value increases caused by others - such as public infrastructure which non-landowners pay for through taxes.

Is that understandable enough?

1. Why prevent free trade of assets with foreigners? The state should not act protectionistic, it only makes other states more protectionist against our companies abroad. There is no such thing as an hostile takeover, only voluntary selling and buying of assets/companies. The road to protectionism is a dark one...
Otherwise I can support state reducing its role in managing free enterprises. The workers should also be allowed to sell their share of the company, if they want, out of free will. But neither should they be forced to do so. If some investor buys 50% of the shares from the workers, so be it. No further state intervention required.

2. So start cracking the unions! ;)

3. Yes, but the question is, if certain area X has no land on sale, and does not really produce anything, and cannot be compared to any other part of the country, how do you define the land value tax there? Throw a number from the hat?
The productivity of farmland also varies, even quite a lot locally, not to talk about warmer areas and colder areas, too much rain, too little rain, fertility etc...
Furthermore, prices of land are in constant change, following millions of variables that keep the price in motion. Every price we can see, reflects a historical value of the good.
If you have a swamp in the middle of nowhere, the government decides the swamp is worth this or that, how would you pay for it? Sell the swamp for someone? And if no one wants to buy a swamp in the middle of nowhere?

And land in cities is heavily influenced by governments, the actions of the governments are the real reason why some areas have far higher prices than what they would have under normal circumstances. So first the governments inflate the price of the land (by preventing it from reaching a natural equilibrium), and then smash a heavy tax upon it? The tax will not be paid by landlord, rather he increases the rents for the inhabitants. The poorer ones will get kicked out, and the rest start looking for housing elsewhere, decreasing the value of the homes from where they are moving from, and increasing the value of land where they are moving to. The market will be heavily distorted. The rich who can pay, have little incentives to react to the change, unless they simply sell their land and move abroad. So the poor suffer once again most, thanks to government making taxes up that are not targeted at the poor, but still result in the poor having to suffer most as a reaction.

You didn't really think this through again? ;)
It's ok, you are not the first fool to think taxing land is a good answer... :p


Amateurs. :p
 

Tommy4ever

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((Wait, but what became of my other favorite little junta in the world, the one in Rhodesia?))

Rhodesia remains defiant and independent - fighting vigorously against Mugabe and various leftist inspired revolutionary movements in the Bush War. It will be mentioned against in the manifestos (currently 2/3s of the way through them!)

As for the great Contra symbol controversy. I don't really see the swastika, but if a number of you think it looks like one it might be best to err on the side of caution and refrain from posting it any more.

Also amusing to see the two prospective Nat Front voters disagreeing over Israel. Very appropriate considering RL Neo-Fascist confusion over the state :p.

Update should be up within a couple of hours :).
 

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Antonine

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May I take the deal?
I will probably vote National Front if I can't, if only to give Contra his chance. (And because the Tories should be much less stable with competition on their right!)
I gave one vote to Enewald, I may give one to Antonine or Contra :p

You may definitely take the deal - one vote for the Liberals and a photo of Antonine wearing a dress and dressed as a prostitute will appear :p

[SNIP]

3. Yes, but the question is, if certain area X has no land on sale, and does not really produce anything, and cannot be compared to any other part of the country, how do you define the land value tax there? Throw a number from the hat?
The productivity of farmland also varies, even quite a lot locally, not to talk about warmer areas and colder areas, too much rain, too little rain, fertility etc...
Furthermore, prices of land are in constant change, following millions of variables that keep the price in motion. Every price we can see, reflects a historical value of the good.
If you have a swamp in the middle of nowhere, the government decides the swamp is worth this or that, how would you pay for it? Sell the swamp for someone? And if no one wants to buy a swamp in the middle of nowhere?

And land in cities is heavily influenced by governments, the actions of the governments are the real reason why some areas have far higher prices than what they would have under normal circumstances. So first the governments inflate the price of the land (by preventing it from reaching a natural equilibrium), and then smash a heavy tax upon it? The tax will not be paid by landlord, rather he increases the rents for the inhabitants. The poorer ones will get kicked out, and the rest start looking for housing elsewhere, decreasing the value of the homes from where they are moving from, and increasing the value of land where they are moving to. The market will be heavily distorted. The rich who can pay, have little incentives to react to the change, unless they simply sell their land and move abroad. So the poor suffer once again most, thanks to government making taxes up that are not targeted at the poor, but still result in the poor having to suffer most as a reaction.

You didn't really think this through again? ;)
It's ok, you are not the first fool to think taxing land is a good answer... :p

You can still value land - there's an entire industry (estate agents) devoted to it as a starting point. And given that a swamp would have a negligible unimproved value you would have to pay hardly any tax on it.

Yes, land in urban areas is heavily influenced by government actions. Government spending on things like infrastructure increase it's value and it is only fair that landowners pay a tax on this increase in wealth which they have not lifted a finger to achieve. And landlords will not be able to increase rents paid by tenants because free market competition will ensure that rent remains around a static level because you can't raise the rents if there are other properties going cheaper. Honestly Enewald, you of all people forgetting about the free market - I'm shocked.

Not to mention that if rents become too high then tenants will be forced to move out and landlords will be paying tax on property which they have no income coming in from, forcing them to sell and therefore correcting their distortion of the market.

The movement of people will not increase or decrease the value of land because the tax is on the unimproved value of the land rather than the income it can yield after accounting for the things built upon it.

And yes, the rich can pay and either will pay, thereby allowing the income tax burden on ordinary people to be reduced, or won't pay and will sell their land, introducing more fluidity into the property market and ending the situation where 90% of the land is owned by 1% of the population - either way, the country wins.
 

Enewald

Enewald Enewald Enewald
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You may definitely take the deal - one vote for the Liberals and a photo of Antonine wearing a dress and dressed as a prostitute will appear :p



You can still value land - there's an entire industry (estate agents) devoted to it as a starting point. And given that a swamp would have a negligible unimproved value you would have to pay hardly any tax on it.

Yes, land in urban areas is heavily influenced by government actions. Government spending on things like infrastructure increase it's value and it is only fair that landowners pay a tax on this increase in wealth which they have not lifted a finger to achieve. And landlords will not be able to increase rents paid by tenants because free market competition will ensure that rent remains around a static level because you can't raise the rents if there are other properties going cheaper. Honestly Enewald, you of all people forgetting about the free market - I'm shocked.

Not to mention that if rents become too high then tenants will be forced to move out and landlords will be paying tax on property which they have no income coming in from, forcing them to sell and therefore correcting their distortion of the market.

The movement of people will not increase or decrease the value of land because the tax is on the unimproved value of the land rather than the income it can yield after accounting for the things built upon it.

And yes, the rich can pay and either will pay, thereby allowing the income tax burden on ordinary people to be reduced, or won't pay and will sell their land, introducing more fluidity into the property market and ending the situation where 90% of the land is owned by 1% of the population - either way, the country wins.

The estate agents do not form the prices, the prices of land are formed by the demand and supply meeting at an equilibrium. Estate agents are just there to help the supply meet demand. Estate agents cannot create true information about the value of some land, the price is still established between the actual seller and the actual buyer.

But according to you, one should still pay for a swamp that has no real profits to its owner, and that no one wants. Simply because some bureaucrat 1000km away decided he wanted more income, so he could get a higher wage. ;)

Ha, what a fallacy. So in theory if you build a road through Sahara, every piece of land adjourning the road has now a higher value compared to the rest of Sahara? Because someone built infra near? :rofl:
The price of the land increases ONLY AND ONLY IF the demand keeps rising while supply does not; the real reason why a price rises.
Built a road in Antarctic, no one will still want to buy the land near the road! The demand stays at ZERO.

The infra in itself does not increase prices, but it can affect consumer preferences.

Lets say there is a 5% land tax given to every piece of land. The tax increase will be fully paid by the land owners, or if the land is rented, by those who are paying the rent. Unless of course people choose to rather become homeless than pay the rent. (some might have to, if they are already living on the limit of their income). Again the poor suffer most.

There is no free market competition if you just distorted the competition by levying a tax on land, the market reacts in a way that it would not do under free competition!

No, the landlord will kick the poorest guy out, and sell it to a higher bidder. Again, you can build an entire huge pretty town in the middle of nowhere, but if there is no demand, the land will still have a value of ZERO!

Again I state, the policies you advocate only result in the poor suffering much more.
 

ThaHoward

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I guess that you didn't hear about Holocaust. After WW II Poland consist almost solely of Poles. Let me also remind you that in 1974 Poland is still communist and you might not want to antagonise country with the second biggest army in Warsaw Pact if you care so much about communism.



I strongly advise that all Tory voters stay with the Conservative Party. While NF definitely sounds fun, (and I would probably vote for them if they promised dissolution of Liberal Party), the Right needs to stand united against centre-left.

Holocaust? Jewish settlers? Arabs attacking Jews? What is all this? But this state of a federation between Jews and Palestinians might look nice on the paper. Buuut under both Ottoman and British rule the arabs attacked and killed the Jews there (sttlers or natives) simply for being Jews. Even under their protests against UK they yelled "death to the Jews" :p And then we got the Arab states attacking Israel when they became independent. So I believe that solution is dofficult :p Also non Jews are allowed to be citizens in Israel. That is better than for example the UAR where they openly discriminate and oppress their own population, like just for not falling under the correct muslim branch or sect :p
 

Antonine

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The estate agents do not form the prices, the prices of land are formed by the demand and supply meeting at an equilibrium. Estate agents are just there to help the supply meet demand. Estate agents cannot create true information about the value of some land, the price is still established between the actual seller and the actual buyer.

But according to you, one should still pay for a swamp that has no real profits to its owner, and that no one wants. Simply because some bureaucrat 1000km away decided he wanted more income, so he could get a higher wage. ;)

Ha, what a fallacy. So in theory if you build a road through Sahara, every piece of land adjourning the road has now a higher value compared to the rest of Sahara? Because someone built infra near? :rofl:
The price of the land increases ONLY AND ONLY IF the demand keeps rising while supply does not; the real reason why a price rises.
Built a road in Antarctic, no one will still want to buy the land near the road! The demand stays at ZERO.

The infra in itself does not increase prices, but it can affect consumer preferences.

Lets say there is a 5% land tax given to every piece of land. The tax increase will be fully paid by the land owners, or if the land is rented, by those who are paying the rent. Unless of course people choose to rather become homeless than pay the rent. (some might have to, if they are already living on the limit of their income). Again the poor suffer most.

There is no free market competition if you just distorted the competition by levying a tax on land, the market reacts in a way that it would not do under free competition!

No, the landlord will kick the poorest guy out, and sell it to a higher bidder. Again, you can build an entire huge pretty town in the middle of nowhere, but if there is no demand, the land will still have a value of ZERO!

Again I state, the policies you advocate only result in the poor suffering much more.

The non-distortionary economics behind Land Value Tax are well known and well established by far superior economic minds to ours. I suggest you look it up if you're not familiar with it.

To quote Adam Smith:

"Ground-rents are a still more proper subject of taxation than the rent of houses. A tax upon ground-rents would not raise the rents of houses. It would fall altogether upon the owner of the ground-rent, who acts always as a monopolist, and exacts the greatest rent which can be got for the use of his ground. More or less can be got for it according as the competitors happen to be richer or poorer, or can afford to gratify their fancy for a particular spot of ground at a greater or smaller expense. In every country the greatest number of rich competitors is in the capital, and it is there accordingly that the highest ground-rents are always to be found. As the wealth of those competitors would in no respect be increased by a tax upon ground-rents, they would not probably be disposed to pay more for the use of the ground. Whether the tax was to be advanced by the inhabitant, or by the owner of the ground, would be of little importance. The more the inhabitant was obliged to pay for the tax, the less he would incline to pay for the ground; so that the final payment of the tax would fall altogether upon the owner of the ground-rent."

And, if you continue to disagree with perfectly valid economic theory, then just look at the existing practical implementation of LVT without the effects you mentioned in parts of the United States and in Denmark.
 
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