The Westminster System - A British Interactive AAR

[ThaHoward]

I'm pretty sure Rhodesia was supplied via Mozambique historically. Angola doesn't share a land border with Rhodesia.

((Ah stupid me. Rhodesia is of course modern day Zimbabwbe and not Zambia. And they are not the Federation of Rhodesia and Nysaland.))

 

[Andarak]

The Soviet Union did not blockade Czechoslovakia; they sent tanks through the streets of Prague.

But they did directly interfere in their sphere of influence - one might think that the Soviet diplomacy would use Britain's military actions for the purpose of white-washing their own.

 

[Antonine]

If you want new leadership then you should NOT vote for Liberals. A vote for Liberals is a vote for Grimond.

If everyone does that then the Liberal party will be reduced to third party status for a decade at best - we need a defeat but not too heavy a one.

 

[LordTempest]

But they did directly interfere in their sphere of influence - one might think that the Soviet diplomacy would use Britain's military actions for the purpose of white-washing their own.

The government of Czechoslovakia, to my knowledge, was never an illegal racist regime. Rhodesia is. If Portugal is prepared to defy international law by supplying Rhodesia, then we have the right to enforce a blockade of goods sent through Mozambique bound for Rhodesia. If the Government of Portugal insists on instituting a racist and a oppressive colonial regime in Mozambique, we are right to take economic and diplomatic action.

If Russia is prepared to side with fascists for petty political reasons, imagine what that will do for their reputation in the Third World.

 

[LordTempest]

If everyone does that then the Liberal party will be reduced to third party status for a decade at best - we need a defeat but not too heavy a one.

Provided you keep above 5%, no defeat would be too heavy if you want to save the party.

 

[Antonine]

And you have what evidence for that crazy assertion of yours?

Experience. She has never spoken a word against misogyny to my knowledge - she's interested in getting beyond the glass ceiling but not at removing it for people following after her.

 

[John Forseti]

Is it wise for Britain to take such action when Soviet Union is widely criticised for their intervention in Czechoslovakia? Is it wise to antagonise our oldest ally? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Portuguese_Treaty_of_1373

Given Portugals membership of NATO, I don't think it can ever get that far, the US isn't going to look too fondly on infighting. So unless a Labour government is prepared to detach from it, maybe joining up with De Gaulle , then enforcing blockades and no-fly zones is likely to be impossible and they'll stick solely to diplomatic and economic pressure.

 

[LordTempest]

Experience. She has never spoken a word against misogyny to my knowledge - she's interested in getting beyond the glass ceiling but not at removing it for people following after her.

Grimond hasn't either. Should I infer from that that he too is a misogynist?

 

[ThaHoward]

Experience. She has never spoken a word against misogyny to my knowledge - she's interested in getting beyond the glass ceiling but not at removing it for people following after her.

We can't know that yet, and it may be just as true for many female Liberas and Labourites. And even then she wouldn't be misgonist. If a person doesn't take racial issues seriously, or want to deal with them, it doesn't make them a racist.

 

[ThaHoward]

Given Portugals membership of NATO, I don't think it can ever get that far, the US isn't going to look too fondly on infighting. So unless a Labour government is prepared to detach from it, maybe joining up with De Gaulle , then enforcing blockades and no-fly zones is likely to be impossible and they'll stick solely to diplomatic and economic pressure.

Good points. Unfortunately for the same reasons we can't implement economical and diplomatical santions against Portugal. So we can only tell them it is not okay really.

 

[Contravarius]

We can't know that yet, and it may be just as true for many female Liberas and Labourites. And even then she wouldn't be misgonist. If a person doesn't take racial issues seriously, or want to deal with them, it doesn't make them a racist.

((You are the last person I expected to say something like that.))

 

[LordTempest]

Good points. Unfortunately for the same reasons we can't implement economical and diplomatical santions against Portugal. So we can only tell them it is not okay really.

That's all we can do unilaterally, but Labour isn't suggesting that we do this unilaterally at all, I don't think. We can push for sanctions, embargoes, even blockades multilaterally.

 

[Andarak]

The government of Czechoslovakia, to my knowledge, was never an illegal racist regime. Rhodesia is. If Portugal is prepared to defy international law by supplying Rhodesia, then we have the right to enforce a blockade of goods sent through Mozambique bound for Rhodesia. If the Government of Portugal insists on instituting a racist and a oppressive colonial regime in Mozambique, we are right to take economic and diplomatic action.

If Russia is prepared to side with fascists for petty political reasons, imagine what that will do for their reputation in the Third World.

((No, we actually don't. Only the U.N can))

Soviets don't have to side with fascists, they would probably agree with such action - but all they need to do is to point their collective finger in our general direction and say "See? They are doing it too!", if we act without U.N permission. Instead of going on ideological crusade that doesn't help our interests at all, wouldn't it be wise to remind Portugal of our alliance to make them stop supplying Rhodesia and work with the government in Salisbury to gradually enforce reforms? All this problems come from rapid decolonisation and ignoring the interests of white people in Rhodesia and South Africa.

 

[Antonine]

Grimond hasn't either. Should I infer from that that he too is a misogynist?

He's legislated against it - deeds count for even more than words.

 

[ThaHoward]

((No, we actually don't. Only the U.N can))

Soviets don't have to side with fascists, they would probably agree with such action - but all they need to do is to point their collective finger in our general direction and say "See? They are doing it too!", if we act without U.N permission. Instead of going on ideological crusade that doesn't help our interests at all, wouldn't it be wise to remind Portugal of our alliance to make them stop supplying Rhodesia and work with the government in Salisbury to gradually enforce reforms? All this problems come from rapid decolonisation and ignoring the interests of white people in Rhodesia and South Africa.

I have to agree with you on this. What do you think about the Indonesian conflict btw?

He's legislated against it - deeds count for even more than words.

Good point. But would it make him a misogonist if he didn't legislate it?

 

[John Forseti]

Good points. Unfortunately for the same reasons we can't implement economical and diplomatical santions against Portugal

Economic sanctions and diplomatic protests don't have to go through the US and NATO command though.

 

[LordTempest]

((No, we actually don't. Only the U.N can))

Soviets don't have to side with fascists, they would probably agree with such action - but all they need to do is to point their collective finger in our general direction and say "See? They are doing it too!", if we act without U.N permission.

And this is precisely why I'm saying that we shouldn't do things unilaterally.

 

[ThaHoward]

Economic sanctions and diplomatic protests don't have to go through the US and NATO command though.

Do you think USA would look fondly at NATO having conflicts inbetween them? A trade war/conflict might destabilize the stability, integrety and relations in NATO.

 

[LordTempest]

A trade war/conflict might destabilize the stability, integrety and relations in NATO.

Do you think the USA would look too kindly on anything which damages their influence in the third world and improves the Soviet's influence? Not doing something about Rhodesia would be worse than doing something IMO.

 

[DensleyBlair]

He's legislated against it - deeds count for even more than words.

Well, he hasn't made misogyny illegal, per se...