The Westminster System - A British Interactive AAR

[atomicsoda]

Of particular concern/interest, I'd like to know what people think of whether in this reality, Ireland is still a member and a monarchy, if the Commonwealth would allow for republics now, if the term dominion ought to be supplanted by Commonwealth and the status of Somalia.

There are republics in the commonwealth such as India and Pakistan. Dominion status should not be supplanted. For example Canada was the first Dominion of the British Empire created in 1867 whose status as a Dominion continued through the creation of the Commonwealth until 1982 when the Constitution was repatriated and it continues as a Commonwealth Realm and independent constitutional monarchy. BTW the crown is not shared. There are seperate crowns for each commonwealth realm created in 1931. For example Queen Elizabeth II is Queen of the United Kingdom, Queen of Canada, Queen of Australia etc.

 

[ThaHoward]

Ireland scrapped the monarchy and left the commonwealth long before the game starts in 1945.

No it happened in 1949. Ireland left the Commonwelath when they became a Republic in 1949. This was because it was not allowed to be a republic in the commonwealth. So Ireland was excluded automatically because of this. However the Commonwealth changed it's rules in 1950 because of what had happened and so that India could be a part of the Commonwealth even if they transformed themselves into a republic and had no longer the British monarch as their head of state.

So in other words if Ireland is still a monarchy it is most likely a part of the Commonwealth.

 

[John Forseti]

Huh, I thought when they got their whole president thing in the 30s that was that.

 

[officerpup]

Would the Conservatives or Nationial Liberals gain more seats if I voted for them?

 

[ThaHoward]

Would the Conservatives or Nationial Liberals gain more seats if I voted for them?

Yes they would So vote for either of them! But you should vote for Conservatives to denymthe liberals a majority.

 

[officerpup]

Yes they would So vote for either of them! But you should vote for Conservatives to denymthe liberals a majority.

Lol, I meant which vote would have more of an effect in terms of numbers of seats.

 

[Andrzej I]

I may be wrong, but I'd think the Nat Libs, as one more vote should push them over 10%, whereas the Conservatives remain in the 25-35% bracket regardless of your vote.

 

[Jackbollda]

National Liberal
That's right. They're the party fer me, lads.

Edit: And yes, they did just need a little extra push.

 

[officerpup]

I can't delay much longer. I vote for UKIP!! Uh, I mean, uh the Conservatives.

National Liberal
That's right. They're the party fer me, lads.

Edit: And yes, they did just need a little extra push.

Your vote for the NLP enabled me to vote for the Conservatives, I heartily thank you!

 

[Davout]

The Nat Libs are dead in the water. Voting Conservative would be the most effective vote, to lift the Tories closer to the Liberals.

 

[ThaHoward]

Lol, I meant which vote would have more of an effect in terms of numbers of seats.

Well if you vote for Conservatives they will be right under the 35% treshold. The Liberals will unfortunately be right over, i.e 35.09%. The National Liberals on the other hand will get over 10% (10.53% to be specific) which will then make them a lot stronger than they are right now. But still neither of the votes are able to break the Liberal majority as they will barely secure 35% and the conservatives will fail to secure 35%. So you can vote for them and hope that one more will vote for Conservatives or vote for National Liberals to make them get over 10%.

National Liberal
That's right. They're the party fer me, lads.

Edit: And yes, they did just need a little extra push.

I can't delay much longer. I vote for UKIP!! Uh, I mean, uh the Conservatives.

Great choices indeed! Now the National Liberals are over 10% and the Liberals are under 35% and thus not in a position to secure a majority. All the while the Conservatives grew stonger.

That is 34,48% to the Liberals, 10,34% to the National Liberals and 29,31% to the Conservatives. The future just got brighter! Hopefully we'll get another Conservative vote!

I haven't done the maths for the actual seats, but hopefully this mean that the Conservatives can form a miniority goverment which is supported by the National Liberals. Anyway in order for the Liberals to create a miniority goverment their closst bet is to get support from the Conservatives.

 

[Sebastian Jarl]

I'll provide a complete list after the next gameplay update as things are liable to change a lot given we are coming into the 1960s.

Much obliged! I look forward to it.

I highly doubt it, considering O'Connell didn't get his way. I further doubt they are still in the Commonwealth, though I'm open to the possibility of being surprised.

My thoughts exactly, but I think both are an exciting possibility. Speculating wildly, it could signal friendlier relations between London and Dublin, which could have an impact on how Her Majesty's government deals with the problem of Ulster. Perhaps we will see a dramatic exit à la South Africa in our timeline?

There are republics in the commonwealth such as India and Pakistan. Dominion status should not be supplanted. For example Canada was the first Dominion of the British Empire created in 1867 whose status as a Dominion continued through the creation of the Commonwealth until 1982 when the Constitution was repatriated and it continues as a Commonwealth Realm and independent constitutional monarchy. BTW the crown is not shared. There are seperate crowns for each commonwealth realm created in 1931. For example Queen Elizabeth II is Queen of the United Kingdom, Queen of Canada, Queen of Australia etc.

My apologies, I left out the word realm at the end of Commonwealth realm. By supplanted I don't mean in the formal sense of an act aboloshing, but in the way in which we would not now refer to the countries with Elizabeth II as a monarch as Commonwealth realms rather than dominions. Your example at the end is a great example of what I mean by this. Elizabeth's first (unified) title, of Great Britain and Ireland and other Dominions across the Seas, shows it as the British monarch also being the monarch of other places. Realms (a term that can also apply to Britain) is a more equal moniker. We can also see a difference in the evolution of her title in the Commonwealth realms today, e.g. Queen of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Canada and her other Realms and territories; Queen of Australia and her other Realms and territories.

The Canadian title shows the British crown as first among equals, whereas the Australian is more one of two countries who just happen to share a monarch. A title of the first kind would mean that it would be natural to use the language of dominions to describe the independent countries. If it is normally of the Australian kind, Commonwealth realm is clearly a more applicable term. If it is universally of the Canadian sort, I'd say either would appear appropriate.

 

[Andrzej I]

Well if you vote for Conservatives they will be right under the 35% threshold.

By 'right under' you mean 5% away, still stuck solidly in the 25-35% bracket, right? :huh: It'd take a fair number more votes to get them over 35%. Edit: Just did the calculations, it'd take six Conservative votes, and nothing else, to push them over 35%.

Anyways! Poll-Pole time!

Total Vote: 58

Liberals: 20
Tories: 17
CPGB: 10
Nat Libs: 6
Labour: 5

%s:
Liberals: 34.5%
Tories: 29.3%
CPGB: 17.2%
Nat Libs: 10.3%
Labour: 8.6%

Weighted:
Liberals: 40
Tories: 34
CPGB: 10
Nat Libs: 3
Labour: 1.25

Seats:
Liberals: 280
Tories: 238
CPGB: 70
Nat Libs: 21
UUP: 12
Labour: 8

My seat calculations may be off +/-1.

 

[John Forseti]

FFfffff, decisions decisions... prevent Labour from being the smallest party in parliament or give the Liberals a majority...

 

[ThaHoward]

If the Conservatives get more votes (and/or the National Liberals) they might form a majority government with the UUP and support from the National Liberals. As it currently is Conservative+UUP with the support of the National Liberals form a stronger miniority government than Liberals alone. Unfortunately they don't manage to secure a majority.

 

[Andrzej I]

Depends if you want a Liberal majority or minority government. A Labour vote would up them to around 20 seats, still rather trivial.

If the Conservatives get more votes (and/or the National Liberals) they might form a majority government with the UUP and support from the National Liberals. As it currently is Conservative+UUP with the support of the National Liberals form a stronger miniority government than Liberals alone. Unfortunately they don't manage to secure a majority.

Wait, what? Tory+Nat Lib+UUP = 238+21+12 = 271, nine shy of the Liberals.

 

[ThaHoward]

FFfffff, decisions decisions... prevent Labour from being the smallest party in parliament or give the Liberals a majority...

Well I am also torn over this On one hand making the Liberals gain majority will also mean that the Labour will fall into the oblivion. Most likely they'll be dissolved. And that will be a catastrophic blow to Socialism. They'll most likely split up and go to the Communist and Liberal party as the current situation is

Depends if you want a Liberal majority or minority government. A Labour vote would up them to around 20 seats, still rather trivial.

Wait, what? Tory+Nat Lib+UUP = 238+21+12 = 271, nine shy of the Liberals.

Ah sorry. A little miscalculation from my end.

 

[John Forseti]

If the Conservatives get more votes (and/or the National Liberals) they might form a majority government with the UUP and support from the National Liberals. As it currently is Conservative+UUP with the support of the National Liberals form a stronger miniority government than Liberals alone. Unfortunately they don't manage to secure a majority.

All a minority government needs is one vote of no confidence and it's time for new elections(same for a majority government of course, but that would require the party in power to vote against itself) As things stand the Libs+Commies could bring down a conservative minority government, but not vice-versa.

 

[Andrzej I]

A little miscalculation from my end.

Forgiven! One more Tory or Nat Lib vote would make what you said true, though, I am fairly sure. Especially a Tory vote.

Also fairly sure what you said about Labour may come true. Having less votes than NI is... pathetic. Almost makes me wish I voted Labour to honour the legacy of Mister Attlee. Almost.

 

[ThaHoward]

All a minority government needs is one vote of no confidence and it's time for new elections(same for a majority government of course, but that would require the party in power to vote against itself) As things stand the Libs+Commies could bring down a conservative minority government, but not vice-versa.

So vote for the Labour then, and prevent them from going into oblivion. As it currently is the Liberals will form a government, with or without Conservative support.

Forgiven! One more Tory or Nat Lib vote would make what you said true, though, I am fairly sure.

Especially a Tory vote. Also fairly sure what you said about Labour may come true. Having less votes than NI is... pathetic. Almost makes me wish I voted Labour to honour the legacy of Mister Attlee. Almost.

Ah thanks Oh indeed it is. If they get under 10% it will only show that they have nothing more to say in British politics and will have to split up. Appereantly the voters have fled to both the far left and center left. So one vote for them could save them from that humiliation.