The Westminster System - A British Interactive AAR

[ThaHoward]

It's important to remember that Britain has an Empire, and not everyone in that Empire is white.

I am talking about UK When it comes to the relations between whites and non-whites in our colonies it should be handled by our imperial policies and not domestic ones.

 

[Contravarius]

I am the Vote Switcher. I don't have to explain anything to you

*...And the mysterious Vote Switcher disappears back into the darkest of mists, twirling his moustache and making whizzing sounds with his mouth.*

 

[LordTempest]

I am the Vote Switcher. I don't have to explain anything to you

He is, I can vouch for that.

Agreed, this may include bringing them into Europe...

Europe only exists in the continental sense at this point in time. I think Tommy said that the next election will involve the early beginnings of what we now call the EU.

 

[ThaHoward]

I assure you that there were plenty of Labour Party socialists who supported racial and gender equality in 1950's Britain and who were deeply concerned with what was going on in some of Her Majesties colonial possessions. The difference between my position and yours is that you have chosen to identify with a different movement than I.

In that case I am not talking about what is going on in the crown lands, but in UK itself. But of course I am concerned about the trends and policies in our colonies. But as I have said the Feminist Alliance is about domestic policies and not about economical, foreign or imperial ones. But I am concerned about what happen in the colonies, with the white "master race" bossing and discriminating it's "subjects".

 

[unmerged(216158)]

((It wouldn't be true to the era we are in. It would take some decades into we could start to do something like that. It isn't about what is political correct in 2014, but what was politically possible in the 50's and 60's.))

To be honest I agree with you but that shouldn't exclude planning for expansion no?

Starting a think tank and research arm could yield huge dividends

 

[LordTempest]

I am talking about UK When it comes to the relations between whites and non-whites in our colonies it should be handled by our imperial policies and not domestic ones.

So the Hon. lady believes that all subjects are equal, but that some subjects are more equal than others?

I do not view human beings in such callous terms. I believe that the Empire is British, and that our own British standards must always be upheld in Britain, colonies or no.

 

[unmerged(216158)]

In that case I am not talking about what is going on in the crown lands, but in UK itself. But of course I am concerned about the trends and policies in our colonies. But as I have said the Feminist Alliance is about domestic policies and not about economical, foreign or imperial ones. But I am concerned about what happen in the colonies, with the white "master race" bossing and discriminating it's "subjects".

Encouraging branch organizations and coordination with other proto/early feminist organizations seems perfectly plausible.

 

[ThaHoward]

So the Hon. lady believes that all subjects are equal, but that some subjects are more equal than others?

I do not view human beings in such callous terms. I believe that the Empire is British, and that our own British standards must always be upheld in Britain, colonies or no.

How can you conclude with that? I am talking about the domestic policies in UK. We have "Imperial Policies" for a reason. We even have different governments, institutions and currencies for the colonies, mandates and dominions. One great step is to let the natives in the colonies to get higher education and take part in their governments and eventually end up as self governing. What you are doing are seeing one thing and then creating a whole new meaning out of it to attack me. Which is unfair as that is not what I said at all.

((And you speak of keeping in character? How many British thought of their colonies as an integral part of United Kingdom? Many even feel/felt difference between the various cultures on the British Isles. ))

 

[DensleyBlair]

((And you speak of keeping in character? How many British thought of their colonies as an integral part of United Kingdom? Many even feel/felt difference between the various cultures on the British Isles. ))

Britain and the United Kingdom are very different things.

 

[ThaHoward]

Britain and the United Kingdom are very different things.

I never said Britain. I said. United Kingdom, British and British Isles. All of them ecompasses England, Scotland, Wales and. Northern Ireland. Still I doubt Brits during this time saw for example a native Zimbabwsese man as a fellow citizen.

 

[LordTempest]

How can you conclude with that? I am talking about the domestic policies in UK. We have "Imperial Policies" for a reason. We even have different governments, institutions and currencies for the colonies, mandates and dominions. One great step is to let the natives in the colonies to get higher education and take part in their governments and eventually end up as self governing. What you are doing are seeing one thing and then creating a whole new meaning out of it to attack me. Which is unfair as that is not what I said at all.

We British cannot allow British standards at home and Colonial standards abroad - that is a double standard. I believe in enforcing the same standards of liberty and equality and fairness in both Britain proper and our overseas colonies - I do not see any distinction between the two. (Dominions of course are a different matter as we are no longer responsible for directly governing them.)

 

[LordTempest]

I never said Britain. I said. United Kingdom, British and British Isles. All of them ecompasses England, Scotland, Wales and. Northern Ireland.

The British Isles encompass southern Ireland as well.

 

[ThaHoward]

The British Isles encompass southern Ireland as well.

Yes, but I am talking about the United Kingdom, hence why Ireland aren't mentioned. I said it encompass those countries, not that only these countries are in the British Isles. Big differences

 

[ThaHoward]

We British cannot allow British standards at home and Colonial standards abroad - that is a double standard. I believe in enforcing the same standards of liberty and equality and fairness in both Britain proper and our overseas colonies - I do not see any distinction between the two. (Dominions of course are a different matter as we are no longer responsible for directly governing them.)

And I would rather see our colonies become self governing as our Dominions and let the natives rule their homeland. While also setting up a legal framework so it will be equality between the genders and ethnicities in the colonies.

((But I still find it amusing that you critize me for these thibgs, then when. I defend them you say I can't since it is out of character for the 50's, but your out of character critizations and later out of character "Empire is as much British as Britian" is entirely allowed. You need to be consistent and not just set up special rules for yourself. And why this crusade agaisånst me now? Nitpicking on every minor detail ))

 

[LordTempest]

And I would rather see our colonies become self governing as our Dominions and let the natives rule their homeland. While also setting up a legal framework so it will be equality between the genders and ethnicities in the colonies.

Then you should be in the Labour Party.

 

[DensleyBlair]

I never said Britain. I said. United Kingdom, British and British Isles. All of them ecompasses England, Scotland, Wales and. Northern Ireland. Still I doubt Brits during this time saw for example a native Zimbabwsese man as a fellow citizen.

I know. My point is that they will be recognised as part of the Empire. I'm not saying that someone in Salisbury, Wiltshire would regard someone in Salisbury, Zimbabwe as an equal citizen, but they would still see them as a citizen of the British Empire.

 

[LordTempest]

((But I still find it amusing that you critize me for these thibgs, then when. I defend them you say I can't since it is out of character for the 50's, but your out of character critizations and later out of character "Empire is as much British as Britian" is entirely allowed. You need to be consistent and not just set up special rules for yourself. And why this crusade agaisånst me now? Nitpicking on every minor detail ))

Don't tell Contra - It'll break his heart.

 

[ThaHoward]

Then you should be in the Labour Party.

Oh my, when will you ever be satisfied or give me some space? And judging by your comments you should be in the communist party, or tumbl anno 2014. But again, if I make something that is a little out of the norms, then it is all out assault. But you can bend the rules all you want.

 

[ThaHoward]

I know. My point is that they will be recognised as part of the Empire. I'm not saying that someone in Salisbury, Wiltshire would regard someone in Salisbury, Zimbabwe as an equal citizen, but they would still see them as a citizen of the British Empire.

((Of course. But they won't be treated as a citizen of the United Kingdom. And legally, IIRC, the British Empire was never a legal entity. And I am also saying that Tanzhang is going out of character claiming that every part of the Empire are an integral part of the UK. Lol the devolution speaks for itself that the various cultures of UK doesn't treat eachother as 100% the same. That they would treat their colonies like that make little sense. Especially if they are opposed to women's rights movements.))

 

[LordTempest]

Oh my, when will you ever be satisfied or give me some space? And judging by your comments you should be in the communist party, or tumbl anno 2014. But again, if I make something that is a little out of the norms, then it is all out assault. But you can bend the rules all you want.

Let me be blunt. As I have said, if you wish to be an MP who supports gender equality then that is totally fine. If however you wish to start a feminist movement, that is a completely different thing altogether. As I say, Mill was basically a third wave feminist in the late 19th century, so being one in the 1950's is not that ahistorical. Trying to start a third wave feminist movement in either period would however be very ahistorical.

That is the distinction.