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LordTempest

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Still Yugoslavia, Communists and Labour Party turned Stalinist. Churchill was re-elected. North Korea no longer exists. Somalia is independent. The NL are under a schisma regarding if the market should be free or extremely free. A scottish liberation movement that seem stronger than the Irish one. Many Conservatives (and also NLs) are clearly anti-female. And so on. Many things that did not happen happen here. And it is not Swedish feminism, quite the contrary :)

Harold won in 1066; therefore let's have an English Green Party in 1830!
 

ThaHoward

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Harold won in 1066; therefore let's have an English Green Party in 1830!

It is no less plausible that feminist movements arose (which they did) and spoke of tearing down sexism in media, liberalization of women and to promote sexual diversity, than the Parliament being filled with scottish indepence fighters or that USA managed to beat North Korea or Somalia getting independent.

The things I speak of did happen, but never managed to become a major political movement (ironically due to their successes), but I have never claimed it to be one :) Also feminism during this time also had problems managing to get a foothold because of the focus of the "nuclear family" and getting women back to the kitchen instead of working - the women accepted this because of the "nuclear family" and because of the welfare state was on most people agendas. It may had gone a different path, which it have done with bearly everything in this AAR. And furthermore I have never claimed it to be a major political movement.
 

LordTempest

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It is no less plausible that feminist movements arose (which they did) and spoke of tearing down sexism in media, liberalization of women and to promote sexual diversity, than the Parliament being filled with scottish indepence fighters or that USA managed to beat North Korea or Somalia getting independent.

The things I speak of did happen, but never managed to become a major political movement (ironically due to their successes), but I have never claimed it to be one :)

There is only one Scottish Nationalist in the present parliament, and he is a Liberal.
 

ThaHoward

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There is only one Scottish Nationalist in the present parliament, and he is a Liberal.

And it is only two individualist feminists. But none have really card about Northen Ireland, (of the players) and if everything was going to be 100% exact there should be more Irish nationalists in the parliament than Scottish. And the Scottish indepence movement should happen after the USSR falls only. And USSR have to fall apart, everything else is impossible!
 

LordTempest

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ThaHoward

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And which parties do they belong to? :p

Liberal and National-Libera. And so what? I've even said multiple times I hold no party loyalty and have concidered many times voting for Liberals. Also even for the Labor party one time if it had not been for their socialist economics. I've also said the movement is independent from political partisanship and that I think social liberties are more important than economical freedom.

If we follow your logic, most of what have happened here in this AAR are BS. But I believe that it is not about that,but that you simply don't like having a feminist movement here :)
 

LordTempest

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Liberal and National-Libera. And so what? I've even said multiple times I hold no party loyalty and have concidered many times voting for Liberals. Also even for the Labor party one time if it had not been for their socialist economics.

Oh, so this involves you breaking away from the intellectual prison that is Enewaldism? Do you take donations? :p
 

ThaHoward

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Oh, so this involves you breaking away from the intellectual prison that is Enewaldism? Do you take donations? :p

I have never claimed to be "Enewaldist". Remember me even critizing him on some instances? ;)
 

unmerged(271387)

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Oh, so this involves you breaking away from the intellectual prison that is Enewaldism? Do you take donations? :p
I guess no, since donations are against the true nature of the omnipotent free market :p
 

Tommy4ever

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There a difference between different paths that are in the realms if plausibility and those which are simply different. An individualist feminist collective is stretching things a little far. A radical pseudo-Marxist feminist group maybe slightly later (1960s or 70s), is a much more realistic target if you're wanting some extreme feminists bobbing about. If it's a more moderate variant of feminism then you're looking anything from the Liberals leftward as your proponents - but it's not going to be an issue they hold as a high priority. Atleast, not now.
 

ThaHoward

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I guess no, since donations are against the true nature of the omnipotent free market :p

Actually it is a correlation between weaker welfare states and stong charity and strong welfare states and weak charity :)

But as I've said the Femitarians/Individualist-Liberal-Moderate Feminists are about social freedoms and then specifically regarding the liberalization of women and sexuality, sexual diversity and getting rid of institunional (or something like that) discrimination. Lile for example te government getting and encouraging the women out of work and to stay at home so they can be the traditional woman and not be at work.
 

ThaHoward

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There a difference between different paths that are in the realms if plausibility and those which are simply different. An individualist feminist collective is stretching things a little far. A radical pseudo-Marxist feminist group maybe slightly later (1960s or 70s), is a much more realistic target if you're wanting some extreme feminists bobbing about. If it's a more moderate variant of feminism then you're looking anything from the Liberals leftward as your proponents - but it's not going to be an issue they hold as a high priority. Atleast, not now.

Never said it is a high priority.
 

LordTempest

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I have never claimed to be "Enewaldist". Remember me even critizing him on some instances? ;)

I have never claimed to be a Communist, remember that one time I voted for Martov instead of Lenin because I thought that Martov's views on the mass party were more persuasive then Lenin's on the Vanguard? :p
 

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I believe even by western european standards, that such a thing would be a bit too early. Let's not forget that we are still at the year 1954
 

ThaHoward

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I believe even by western european standards, that such a thing would be a bit too early. Let's not forget that we are still at the year 1954

1950s Britain has traditionally been regarded as a bleak period for feminism. In the aftermath of World War II, a new emphasis was placed on the nuclear family as a foundation of the new British welfare state. Although during the war most women worked outside the home and participated in the war effort, after its end they were encouraged to assume roles of wives and mothers, as the government aimed to “re-establish domesticity as women’s primary occupation (see Ward 2004: 50, Pugh 1990: 158).

In 1951, the proportion of adult women who were (or had been) married was 75%; more specifically, 84.8% of women between the ages of 45 and 49 were married (Lewis 1984: 3). At that time: “marriage was more popular than ever before” (Bruely 131). In 1953, a popular book of advice for women states: “A happy marriage may be seen, not as a holy state or something to which a few may luckily attain, but rather as the best course, the simplest, and the easiest way of life for us all” (Whiteman 67).

While at the end of the war, childcare facilities were closed and assistance for working women became limited, the social reforms implemented by the new welfare state included family allowances meant to subsidize families, that is, to support women in the “capacity as wife and mother” (Pugh 1990: 158). Sue Bruely argues that “the progressive vision of the New Britain of 1945 was flawed by a fundamentally conservative view of women” (118).

The encouragement to marry and was reinforced by popular media: films, radio and popular women's magazines. In the 1950s, women's magazines had considerable influence on forming opinion in all walks of life, including the attitude to women’s employment. Cynthia White maintains that their attitude to this issue was “regressive,” and that they used their great influence “positively to discourage women from trying to combine work and marriage” (135). Martin Pugh regards women’s magazines as prescriptive literature, and claims they “threw themselves back into the task of discouraging women from seeking careers” (1990: 162). Through fiction and real-life stories, women’s magazines promoted the ideal of women’s domesticity and dependence, encouraging the return of the female labor force to the kitchen and the nursery (Ferguson 1983: 21). Similarly, women’s programs on the radio and on the recently introduced television were just as dogmatic, and served to reinforce the image of the woman as a successful housewife.

In spite of this, 1950s Britain saw several strides towards the parity of women, such as equal pay for teachers (1952) and for men and women in the civil service (1954). Thanks to activists like Edith Summerskill, who fought for women’s causes both in parliament and in the traditional non-party pressure groups throughout the 1950s (See Pugh 284). Barbara Caine argues: “Ironically here, as with the vote, success was sometimes the worst enemy of organized feminism, as the achievement of each goal brought to an end the campaign which had been organized around it, leaving nothing in its place” (1997: 223).

Feminist writers of that period, such as Alva Myrdal and Viola Klein, started to allow for the possibility that women should be able to combine home with outside employment. 1950s’ form of feminism is often derogatorily termed “welfare feminism” (see Banks 1981:176). Indeed, many activists went to great length to stress that their position was that of ‘reasonable modern feminism,’ which accepted sexual diversity, and sought to establish what women’s social contribution was rather than emphasizing equality or the similarity of the sexes. Feminism in 1950s England was strongly connected to social responsibility and involved the well-being of society as a whole. This often came at the cost of the liberation and personal fulfillment of self-declared feminists. Even those women who regarded themselves as feminists strongly endorsed prevailing ideas about the primacy of children’s needs, as advocated, for example, by John Bowlby the head of the Children's Department at the Tavistock Clinic, who published extensively throughout the 1950s and by Donald Winnicott who promoted through radio broadcasts and in the press the idea of the home as a private emotional world in which mother and child are bound to each other and in which the mother has control and finds freedom to fulfill herself (see Finch and Summerfield 11).
,.
 

LordTempest

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But as I've said the Femitarians/Individualist-Liberal-Moderate Feminists are about social freedoms and then specifically regarding the liberalization of women and sexuality, sexual diversity and getting rid of institunional (or something like that) discrimination. Lile for example te government getting and encouraging the women out of work and to stay at home so they can be the traditional woman and not be at work.

Rosa, if you want to go off and RP some kind of Liberal Feminist than go ahead - anything to stop you arguing about economics and the "One true Enewaldian Liberalism" for the fifteenth time. But creating your own independent faction around the idea is a little different. It would be like Dadrian creating his own little SNP.
 

Tommy4ever

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Actually it is a correlation between weaker welfare states and stong charity and strong welfare states and weak charity :)

But as I've said the Femitarians/Individualist-Liberal-Moderate Feminists are about social freedoms and then specifically regarding the liberalization of women and sexuality, sexual diversity and getting rid of institunional (or something like that) discrimination. Lile for example te government getting and encouraging the women out of work and to stay at home so they can be the traditional woman and not be at work.

This sounds very late 1960s - and until the 1980s at the earliest something confined to the Left, quite often the Radical Left.
 

LordTempest

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LordTempest

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This sounds very late 1960s - and until the 1980s at the earliest something confined to the Left, quite often the Radical Left.

I dunno, I think her language is more radical than her intent there.
 

ThaHoward

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Rosa, if you want to go off and RP some kind of Liberal Feminist than go ahead - anything to stop you arguing about economics and the "One true Enewaldian Liberalism" for the fifteenth time. But creating your own independent faction around the idea is a little different. It would be like Dadrian creating his own little SNP.

Wher have I claimed to create a faction? :p I don't even think it will be taken seriously.
 
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