The Welsh culture should be in Cumbria/Rheged, connect Wales and Strathclyde in 769

[Ciccillo Rre]

As per the title. We want at least an approximated representation of the Brittonic Cumbrians! Even if the Northumbrians owned the area, and probably they did, they had not anglicized the area thoroughly, most likely, by the time of the scenario!

 

[Sparticulous]

I support this idea! Also I think Strathclyde should own cumberland in the 769 scenario. There should also be a Dalriada kingdom to the north west of Strathclyde too too?

 

[Cheesecakeczar]

Worst come to worst, they could use Welsh to represent it

.

 

[Tuerai]

Worst come to worst, they could use Welsh to represent it

That's pretty much what they do already

 

[Kilij]

I actually believe that Rheged was peacefully incorporated into Northumbria by marriage, so there should definitely be Welsh counties, if not perhaps some Welsh counts under Northumbria. As for southern Rheged, closer to Wales, idk what the political situation was, but they would probably be Welsh too. Infact, I would say that the whole west coast of Britain from Wales to Stratchclyde should be Welsh. I would like to see another Welsh nation though, so I'll probably look into more sources and see if any more were still present.

 

[Rikissa]

I think the culture map still needs some work. The game's events imply that culture represents the language spoken by the peasantry, however there is this large Visigothic blob when in reality the "proper" Visigoths only formed a small elite ruling over a Latin/Hispanic populace.

 

[coolkid651]

I think the culture map still needs some work. The game's events imply that culture represents the language spoken by the peasantry, however there is this large Visigothic blob when in reality the "proper" Visigoths only formed a small elite ruling over a Latin/Hispanic populace.

i can agree with that and believe that the rulers should be Gothic culture but with the provinces having Hispanic. then have a culture split similar to Norse with each kingdom developing it's own separate culture.

 

[nalfz]

I support this idea! Also I think Strathclyde should own cumberland in the 769 scenario. There should also be a Dalriada kingdom to the north west of Strathclyde too too?

This is totally unrelated but I'm a big fan of the fact that you're called 'Sparticulous' and you have 300 posts
I mean I know that the name's probably referring to spartacus and not sparta but still

 

[Mr Repwoc]

At this point in the West, English was the dominant language in the lowlands whereas Cumbric survived in the uplands. It had been part of Northumbria for nearly one hundred years by this point after being inherited by a descendent of Oswiu and Riemmelth.

 

[nalfz]

At this point in the West, English was the dominant language in the lowlands whereas Cumbric survived in the uplands. It had been part of Northumbria for nearly one hundred years by this point after being inherited by a descendent of Oswiu and Riemmelth.

At some point one of the sides of this argument is gonna have to supply some evidence, and seeing as I certainly don't have any and you seem to know what you're talking about do you have any?
If I have one argument to make it's that I don't believe a culture can be nearly completely assimilated in 100 years and then live for another 4 centuries. Such a thing doesn't make sense to be

 

[unmerged(187365)]

I think the culture map still needs some work. The game's events imply that culture represents the language spoken by the peasantry, however there is this large Visigothic blob when in reality the "proper" Visigoths only formed a small elite ruling over a Latin/Hispanic populace.

I believe the 'Visigothic' culture will likely be in the Iberian group and is only meant to represent the blended Hispanic/Germanic culture of the Visigothic kingdom which was only recently broken up. Similar to how Frankish and Norman are in the Latin group.

This is probably so that the player (or a very lucky AI) gets the chance to alter history and restore the Visigothic kingdom. It's not a stretch to imagine that if the kingdom had survived modern Iberians would be calling themselves Godo or something.

 

[Mr Repwoc]

At some point one of the sides of this argument is gonna have to supply some evidence, and seeing as I certainly don't have any and you seem to know what you're talking about do you have any?
If I have one argument to make it's that I don't believe a culture can be nearly completely assimilated in 100 years and then live for another 4 centuries. Such a thing doesn't make sense to be

The old Cumbric ways persisted in the uplands (as they still do with the counting system) whereas the English were supplanted by Norse who were then conquered by English who were then conquered by Danes and then Normans. The Cumbric way of life never died out or was replaced it just held out all the change around it.

I seem to remember reading about this in Higham and Ryan's Anglo Saxon World.

 

[Thure]

I believe the 'Visigothic' culture will likely be in the Iberian group and is only meant to represent the blended Hispanic/Germanic culture of the Visigothic kingdom which was only recently broken up. Similar to how Frankish and Norman are in the Latin group.

BUt it looks like they split Frankish and French now So hopefully no Charles for Charlemagne.

 

[uraeus]

The old Cumbric ways persisted in the uplands (as they still do with the counting system) whereas the English were supplanted by Norse who were then conquered by English who were then conquered by Danes and then Normans. The Cumbric way of life never died out or was replaced it just held out all the change around it.
.

Well I assume it was Anglo-Saxon was the one that was suplanted by Norse and then later supplanted by English? Would be weird otherwise since English is an amalgamation of Anglo-Saxon, Norse and some french from the Normans thrown in (and probably bits and bobs of some gaelic languages too)

 

[Mr Repwoc]

Well I assume it was Anglo-Saxon was the one that was suplanted by Norse and then later supplanted by English? Would be weird otherwise since English is an amalgamation of Anglo-Saxon, Norse and some french from the Normans thrown in (and probably bits and bobs of some gaelic languages too)

Yes, I tend to just say English because I'm too lazy to type out Anglo Saxon, they called themselves Ænglisc anyway.

 

[AndreasPhokas]

I've researched a fair bit into the English isles and I definitely think that rheged/cumbria should still be welsh, iirc rheged married into an anglo-saxon kingdom and I know cumbria took a while to assimilate.

 

[riadach]

Slightly related, but what should happen to Man?

It has to be Irish at this stage right? But should it be independent, and who should govern it?