I considered purchasing it to read during my recent trip to China, however instead opted to go for Max Hasting's Catastrophe instead. Do you know how it compares to this book?
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I considered purchasing it to read during my recent trip to China, however instead opted to go for Max Hasting's Catastrophe instead. Do you know how it compares to this book?
Sure, but that answer implicitly assumes what I was griping out, that "blame'" is the only question so if you can't talk about the book that's the natural second choice. And that seems the path everyone goes down on these threads recently, and with the centennary we've had a ton of them. Not that I didn't enjoy your "live blogging" the start of the war series.
"Causes" is not the same thing as blame. In fact, while you need to know history to argue the blame question (and I've been impressed by how much many posters know) I'd argue that the question itself is not primarily a historical one. Especially if you're going back a century to look at broad trends.
WWI does seem to be in a strange spot--no one argues about "blame" for the Seven Years' War or the Franco-Prussian War AFAIK. It just doesn't seem an interesting question but for WWI it's the primary question. I don't think it's just because it's recent, maybe also because of the wealth of documents can always support a new variation on an old thesis.
I don't see how "causes" are different from "blame". There is a moral connotation with "blame", but in the end it is the same thing. Since we assume a war is a morally condemnable phenomenon, whichever is the cause of this war is also "to blame" for it.
The Seven Years war was a typical "Cabinet" war of the XVIIIth, so there is not much to be said about it. Everyone agrees that it was caused by aggressive expansionist politics of absolutist Great Powers. While for WWI there were several different interpretations of the causes of the war since the beginning, and as a matter of fact this question had a tremendous political relevance at the time. If it was agreed upon that Germany caused the war, then the "war guilt" clause and the Versailles diktat was only justified. If every nation is to blame, then a milder peace has to be envisioned. Lenin blames imperialism for the war which he uses as an argument for the rejection of parliamentarian democracy, etc. Since then the discussion went on.
The Seven Years war was a typical "Cabinet" war of the XVIIIth, so there is not much to be said about it. Everyone agrees that it was caused by aggressive expansionist politics of absolutist Great Powers. While for WWI there were several different interpretations of the causes of the war since the beginning, and as a matter of fact this question had a tremendous political relevance at the time. If it was agreed upon that Germany caused the war, then the "war guilt" clause and the Versailles diktat was only justified. If every nation is to blame, then a milder peace has to be envisioned. Lenin blames imperialism for the war which he uses as an argument for the rejection of parliamentarian democracy, etc. Since then the discussion went on.
Causes are different from blame. The causes of WW1 are related to 19th century great power politics and the gradual destablisation of the system of checks and balances introduced after the Napoleonic wars as well as the social and economic consequences of the industrialisation of Europe. WW1 could have been triggerd by several other events prior to the assasination and it is easy to dream up plausible scenarios for 1914 or 1915 that could have triggered the war even if the assasination did not.
The blame is based on assessing who had the ability to avert/avoid the war but chose to take action that increased the chance/caused the start of the war. A very similar war could have occured with the Russians pushing their demands on to a different state in the Balkans or a colonial flare up between France and Germany. In these cases we would apportion blame in a different manner without significantly changing the underlying causes of the war.
The blame is based on assessing who had the ability to avert/avoid the war but chose to take action that increased the chance/caused the start of the war. A very similar war could have occured with the Russians pushing their demands on to a different state in the Balkans or a colonial flare up between France and Germany. In these cases we would apportion blame in a different manner without significantly changing the underlying causes of the war.
the best part about ww1?
mustard gas.
that being said, the best part about ww1 is the massive misunderstandings that surround it. fascinating conflict all around. also, it kinda ended western civilization, so there's that.
germany mobilized and declared war on russia.
germany gave austria-hungary the blank check. germany expanded the war by invading france and belgium.
germany was responsible, by and large, for the war.
Might want to check your timeline, Russia mobilized (I'm sorry, mobilized to mobilize) first.
Russia began mobilisation first, but Germany finished mobilising several weeks before Russia did.
moreover, the kaiser, the one guy who could have ended the build up to war with a couple of telegrams, chose not to.
instead, he chose to go to war. yes, he was bullied by his generals, and scared of losing face, and everything else, but he was an adult man who made a decision which ended up being one of the historically worst ones of all time.
germany believed that their hegemony over europe could only be assured by military power, when in reality, they would have gotten everything they wanted (and more) if they had stopped their military build up and stopped aggrandizing the rest of europe.
i guess it took 5 million dead germans and 50 million dead europeans and two world wars and 50 years to teach them that lesson, but, sometimes, it takes a little time to get the message across.
instead, he chose to go to war. yes, he was bullied by his generals, and scared of losing face, and everything else, but he was an adult man who made a decision which ended up being one of the historically worst ones of all time.
germany believed that their hegemony over europe could only be assured by military power, when in reality, they would have gotten everything they wanted (and more) if they had stopped their military build up and stopped aggrandizing the rest of europe.
i guess it took 5 million dead germans and 50 million dead europeans and two world wars and 50 years to teach them that lesson, but, sometimes, it takes a little time to get the message across.
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What about Niall Ferguson´s book? Did you read it too Wiggum?
I really liked it and yes it does put blame on more than Germany, as well.
I really liked it and yes it does put blame on more than Germany, as well.
Simple. While Russia was in the process of mobilising, not one soldier had crossed the border, not one shot had been fired, and Russian diplomats were still talking to Austro-Hungarian diplomats to try and negotiate a compromise. The Tsar could have cancelled mobilisation with one telephone call if agreement had been reached.
When Germany finished mobilising and their army was ready to attack, they promptly attacked their neighbours. It was a bit harder to negotiate after that.
Bah, when Russia finished mobilising and their army was ready to attack, they promptly attacked, in fact they even attacked before they really finished mobilising. No difference with Germany here, except it took more time on the Russian side.
No, because Germany declared war on them while the Russians were still negotiating.
They "promptly attacked" two weeks after Germany had declared war on them.
Those dastardly Russians.
You make it appear as if the Russian attack was a result of the German declaration of war, which as you know very well is incorrect.
StephenT has been pushing the official British view of "its all Germany's fault" since time immemorial.
I think the biggest reason Germany gets the blame instead of Austria or Russia is that there was no Russia or AH to extract money from.
I think the biggest reason Germany gets the blame instead of Austria or Russia is that there was no Russia or AH to extract money from.