It gets run over by panzer grenadiers reliably now - even zero star ones - and lacks suppression to stop anything that isn't disheartened.
Definitely needs love.
Definitely needs love.
The Vickers Sucks Now
- Thread starter Claremont Waltz
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I do agree. In fact, a lot of non-vet MMGs with low rates of fire/range could probably use some love.
I feel we are back into M60/PKM territory with them right now a la Red Dragon (MG-3 Master Race)
I feel we are back into M60/PKM territory with them right now a la Red Dragon (MG-3 Master Race)
MG balance made no sense in Red Dragon and it makes no sense now, the PKM is an excellent machine gun and highly favored by Russians and over a dozen other countries for its accuracy and reliability, the M60 (despite initial problems in Vietnam) was also favored for its accuracy and stopping power, same goes for the M240. Instead Eugen decides that "na lol, we're gonna make all 7.62 GPMG's except the MG3 suck ass because fuck balance or historical accuracy, also lol M249 and other 5.56 SAW's are going to be more accurate because ecksdee". The 7.62 GPMG's should have had more range, accuracy, and stopping power while the LMG's having more rate of fire, accuracy on the move, and possibly suppression. LMG balance was borked and made no sense.
We're encountering a similar thing here. The Vickers and Bren were loved by British soldiers in WW2, they were both incredibly accurate, the Bren was even sometimes described as being too accurate for its role almost. Yet in game these weapons both suck and can't kill a fly, I had a Bren Group squad that was garrisoned in a building lose to a single one star Fallschirmjager squad that was out in the open 300m away. The Bren should have low suppression value but be very good at killing infantry especially when they're in the open, the Vickers should have better accuracy over the MG34/42.
The bren group is a 10 point squad- i don't really think it's meant to be a match for a 30-35pt pgren squad.
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Yeah, the units explicitly called "Bren Group" are mostly OK, I think, not that that necessarily helps other units stuck with a Bren. The 1-star version of the Scots guy is fun to spam, and the 2-star(/10 man) AB Bren Group is totally worthwhile thanks to the dual vet. Or, at least, were prior to the latest patch- the vet nerf and the mobile infantry buff both hurt them, obviously, so I may need to recalibrate my opinions.
The Guards, as usual, are left out in the cold. Their Bren Group has no vet and only is available when paired with a halftrack that costs more than the unit itself. If you're buying that, seems like you probably should be doing so for the halftrack, not the infantry.
Definitely some room for tweaking MG balance, though. The M1919, in particular, is pretty poorly priced. You're paying 25 or 30 points for something that's at best half the machine gun of a 30-point MG 34 or 35-point MG 42. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP right and that once the new patch changes sink in, the Vickers looks pretty poor, too.
All in all, the infantry changes came as quite a surprise to me. I rather liked the way infantry combat felt in Steel Division, and also appreciated how that reduced the amount of micro involved. I'm not sure that I want more mobile infantry.
The Guards, as usual, are left out in the cold. Their Bren Group has no vet and only is available when paired with a halftrack that costs more than the unit itself. If you're buying that, seems like you probably should be doing so for the halftrack, not the infantry.
Definitely some room for tweaking MG balance, though. The M1919, in particular, is pretty poorly priced. You're paying 25 or 30 points for something that's at best half the machine gun of a 30-point MG 34 or 35-point MG 42. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP right and that once the new patch changes sink in, the Vickers looks pretty poor, too.
All in all, the infantry changes came as quite a surprise to me. I rather liked the way infantry combat felt in Steel Division, and also appreciated how that reduced the amount of micro involved. I'm not sure that I want more mobile infantry.
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It's 15 points, which is the same price as all of the other M5 HTs the Guards get. That is 5 points cheaper than, say, the Poles or the French get, I guess, if we're looking cross-deck. Or the similar M3 HT. Fair enough.
Well, maybe you're right. I made some use of mass half-tracks back in the beta, but I've moved away from armored decks in general and on the Allied side of the fence I've mostly been playing the Poles lately and they can get free trucks for their infantry. I may be underestimating the value of a half-track.
Well, maybe you're right. I made some use of mass half-tracks back in the beta, but I've moved away from armored decks in general and on the Allied side of the fence I've mostly been playing the Poles lately and they can get free trucks for their infantry. I may be underestimating the value of a half-track.
I'm not even sure how to play without halftracks at this point, they're so amazing and valuable and you get free infantry with them. So as someone from the other side of the fence I feel your confusion but in reverse.
I've been playing decks without halftracks to force myself to relearn it, but I'm just so cranky about not having virtually omnipresent halftracks.
"oh my squad of inf is getting suppressed/mortars coming in/need to move it move it? Back in the track!"
Universal carriers don't count British people, you can't just make a little open top land boat and call it a halftracks.
I've been playing decks without halftracks to force myself to relearn it, but I'm just so cranky about not having virtually omnipresent halftracks.
"oh my squad of inf is getting suppressed/mortars coming in/need to move it move it? Back in the track!"
Universal carriers don't count British people, you can't just make a little open top land boat and call it a halftracks.
My troops will take the incoming mortar fire and like it, like real men, obviously. What do they think I am, their babysitter?
Are you actually playing Guards and micro-ing individual Bren squads out of the way of mortar fire, BTW, or are you just loving APCs in general?
APCs are all well and good, but the APC + Bren pair doesn't strike me as a particularly good synergy unless you're trying to do some sort of APC swarm rush. Then again, hey, I think I've played the Guards about twice since beta, so maybe I'm wrong.
APCs are all well and good, but the APC + Bren pair doesn't strike me as a particularly good synergy unless you're trying to do some sort of APC swarm rush. Then again, hey, I think I've played the Guards about twice since beta, so maybe I'm wrong.
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Dont forget the Riflemen 90 being denied the M249 even though it was in service since 1983 in that role... Or the fact that ANZAC had it when it entered service for them in 1989... Wargame itself was all kinds of "flavor" based stupidity. Im sad that had to carry over to this game aswell. Wargame was about as realistic of represntation of modern militaries (equipment stats, training, and other capabilities) as GTA V is of modern criminals.
You say that, but looking at the MMG carrier, the Vickers on it has 8 HE, more than it's infantry based variant with 6, and even more than the M2 Browning on M5A1 Halftracks with 7. Making the 25pnt MMG Carrier more powerful than most mounted MGs, and a few infantry based ones (the M1917 HMG and M2HB HMG are as powerful and more powerful respectively), on the allied side.
HE value on small arm isn't a reliable indicator. It's fairly accurate on actual HE shell but not the small arms.
and the 10 pt cost on the double bren and 15 pt on the HT are basically acknowledgement that the brens are crap, but instead of making them stronger they are just going to be cheaper.
the 2x bren used to be 15 pt and the guard HT used to be 20 pt. The bren guns are such a disappointment the 2x bren become the cheapest combat unit in the game, tied with the ersatz .
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I beg to differ, not only can we, but we can make lots of different versions of said rubber i mean tin i mean steel dingy i mean carrier! And also put all our stuff in said thing!
I did try to make the brens work for that, but they're just to shit to be worth the effort. Armored rifles I do that, and panzer grens and lmg rifles (which are ace now).
Some of the Polish infantry is also worth APC bouncing.
I have got an idea for the Vickers did you know that it has a water cooling jacket around the barrel that allows it to stay cool despite firing a large quantity of rounds this allows it to have an immense suppressing factor in a gunfight it's a shame that is missing in game and I do hope that they add it soon.
Unfortunately it is realistic at the Bren machine gun was one of the worst machine guns during the war to shame that the British didn't use something better like the vickers k
Wrong. The Bren gun was very often called the best light machine gun of the war and was very popular with troops.
In general, the Bren was considered a reliable and effective light machine gun, though in North Africa it was reported to jam regularly unless kept very clean and free of sand or dirt. It was popular with British troops, who respected the Bren for its reliability and combat effectiveness. The quality of the materials used would generally ensure minimal jamming. When the gun did jam through fouling caused by prolonged firing, the operator could adjust the four-position gas regulator to feed more gas to the piston increasing the power to operate the mechanism. The barrel needed to be unlocked and slid forward slightly to allow the regulator to be turned. It was even said that all problems with the Bren could simply be cleared by hitting the gun, turning the regulator or doing both. It was by general consent the finest light machine gun in the world of its period, and the most useful weapon provided to the (French) "maquis" .... accurate up to 1,000 meters, and (it) could withstand immense maltreatment and unskilled use. "Resistants" were constantly pleading for maximum drops of Brens.
Called the best machine gun of the war? lol. The soldier calling it good would have only had the vickers hmg to compare it to...... From a historical standpoint, the mg34/42 where much better