The United States should be nearly impossible to conquer

[sepoquro]

In HOI3 it wasn't that hard to just roll into the US and take it over as the Axis, which I feel doesn't reflect reality at all. We are talking about a country with a similar population size to the USSR and has the second largest area after the USSR (if colonies are not counted). Add to that the fact that the US is separated from Eurasia by the Atlantic and Pacific oceans, the Americans have an extremely powerful navy, American troops are much better equipped compared to Soviets, and the fact that nearly all American households are armed with firearms, and the result is a country that is virtually impossible to invade.

I know HOI is about alternate history but if the Germans couldn't invade the UK which lies just across a tiny channel, and couldn't beat the USSR, which it shared a border with, what chance do they have against the Americans who are across the ocean? It should still be possible but I hope the extreme difficulty of this scenario is reflected in the game, unlike in HOI3. This will add realism and depth to the game. For instance, the Axis player has to decide if they really want to wake the sleeping giant and the decision to declare war against America will hold more weight to it.

 

[Zoob]

Depends by whom, should a Fascist UK be able to invade the US?

 

[rafan]

Sniff, Sniff

This smels like another America stronki thread.

On the subject (that shows at least once a month)

Yes it should be hard to invade USA (especialy in late game)

No it shouldynt be imposible (especialy early game when USA is simply weak military)

Yes Canadian moose cavalry should meet Mexican/Aztec warriors in central USA when they invaded them in 1937 after Franklin D. Roosevelt created blasphemous taco with clone syrup.

 

[Harrigarno]

First of all, in relation to:

... but if the Germans couldn't invade the UK which lies just across a tiny channel, and couldn't beat the USSR, which it shared a border with, what chance do they have against the Americans who are across the ocean? ...

The Germans almost did take the UK, they would have had a great chance of taking the UK, except that Hitler ordered his airforce to change from bombing the RAF to bombing towns and cities. They almost had the RAF beat, but the change allowed for a breather in the Battle of Britian..... I could go on. You get the picture.

Arguing about alternative history doesn't get anywhere. IF the Axis were able to grab all of Europe, there would be a possibility that the US could be defeated militarily (don't forget that the US is in-between Asia and Europe). The Nazis were supposedly developing nuclear weapons, who knows?

 

[Swinds]

First of all, in relation to:


The Germans almost did take the UK, they would have had a great chance of taking the UK, except that Hitler ordered his airforce to change from bombing the RAF to bombing towns and cities. They almost had the RAF beat, but the change allowed for a breather in the Battle of Britian..... I could go on. You get the picture.

Arguing about alternative history doesn't get anywhere. IF the Axis were able to grab all of Europe, there would be a possibility that the US could be defeated militarily (don't forget that the US is in-between Asia and Europe). The Nazis were supposedly developing nuclear weapons, who knows?

There is a 'was sealion possible' thread in which no one could find a good reason for sealion to have worked

 

[Denkt]

US have a massive amount of factories and a very large population so it is very powerful but not impossible to defeat and conquer.

 

[Katarian]

The US should be really really hard to invade successfully. It's geographic location compared to most of it's enemies, size, and industrial might are all reasons that make it so strong. I frankly don't buy the armed citizens rubbish as having any bearing. Anybody who can defeat the USN, USAAF, and the US Army and manage the logistical challenges in achieving a successful invasion isn't going to be all that worried by a load of drunken hicks with guns .

 

[Caesar15]

The U.S is similar to the USSR and China when it comes to invading. The geography and infrastructure would make it easier for an invasion force though. Actual roads for example and and a lot less marshes and mud seasons. However, that's counteracted by giant oceans in the way. Any sort of invasion force coming from another continent would be impossible to supply in a large amount. I mean I guess Canada could be a staging point but you would have to count on the U.S army being small rather than your army being big. As for the armed populace factor, this is more for partisans more than anything else. Think Red Dawn.

 

[Skjold89]

USA Stronk.

Just gonna put this from a pure gameplay perspective, but making an impossibly difficult USA to invade would break the balance of the entire game. Get USA into your faction and you're good to go. Truth is the US had a joke of an army in 1936 and it should be relativly easy to invade until a proper buildup has happened. USA has the potential to be basicly impossible to defeat, but it shouldn't be that by default.

Also, lets just for fun say the Germans won the war in Europe and the Manhattan project never took off. They spent the resources of pretty much the entire Eurasian continent to build a navy and airforce to invade the US. Could it not be done?

Also armed rabble doesn't matter. There was partisans everywhere in occupied Europe, they were not more then a nuisance.

 

[Denkt]

Im pretty sure we will see quite a few German world conquest games.

 

[Evan05]

USA Stronk.

Just gonna put this from a pure gameplay perspective, but making an impossibly difficult USA to invade would break the balance of the entire game. Get USA into your faction and you're good to go. Truth is the US had a joke of an army in 1936 and it should be relativly easy to invade until a proper buildup has happened. USA has the potential to be basicly impossible to defeat, but it shouldn't be that by default.

Also, lets just for fun say the Germans won the war in Europe and the Manhattan project never took off. They spent the resources of pretty much the entire Eurasian continent to build a navy and airforce to invade the US. Could it not be done?

Also armed rabble doesn't matter. There was partisans everywhere in occupied Europe, they were not more then a nuisance.

The US did have a joke army in 1936, but so did Germany and Italy. It doesn't matter if they had a joke army, the US was practically impossible to invade due to their massive industry, natural resources, large population, and the fact that they're on the other side of the world from all the other major powers.

In the event that Germany did win, crushing both the Soviets and Britain, then it would simply be a stalemate.

While I don't think the US should be impossible to be defeat, it should be the hardest one of the major seven to beat and occupy.

 

[Skjold89]

The US did have a joke army in 1936, but so did Germany and Italy. It doesn't matter if they had a joke army, the US was practically impossible to invade due to their massive industry, natural resources, large population, and the fact that they're on the other side of the world from all the other major powers.

In the event that Germany did win, crushing both the Soviets and Britain, then it would simply be a stalemate.

I do agree, i find any realistic axis invasion of mainland USA to be fiction to say the least, but this is a game and if the stars aligned perhaps

 

[aqvamare]

HOI =/= reality.

In HOI a good player can always abuse AI weakness.

Historical, there were zero plays for invading the USA from germany, there only plans were for long range material bombard battle to bring the "weak" willed US to the peace table.

--------------------------------------

UK and sealion, yes, to costly in the timefame.

UK and peace through airwar, possible, if germany didn't done barbarossa and the DOW on USA. Without soviet and USA, single UK would have signed peace with germany, when germany would have added into the long range bombard battle the cheap cruise missles. With 1943 and the V1, with no barbarossa,, germany didn't need to send bomber anymore into UK airspace, the could simply outproduce and bomb the UK.

The cost of the atlantic wall into a wall of V1 starting ramps, and the cost of "eastern" airplane looses into V1 production, and UK would simply forced into crumble in 1943.

 

[Evan05]

I do agree, i find any realistic axis invasion of mainland USA to be fiction to say the least, but this is a game and if the stars aligned perhaps

I think it should be possible, but near impossible. Perhaps the Axis would first have to puppet and build up in Canada or something. But they will have to overcome the Atlantic and (and in the case of Japan) the Pacific.

 

[77Hawk77]

In HOI3 it wasn't that hard to just roll into the US and take it over as the Axis, which I feel doesn't reflect reality at all. We are talking about a country with a similar population size to the USSR and has the second largest area after the USSR (if colonies are not counted). Add to that the fact that the US is separated from Eurasia by the Atlantic and Pacific oceans, the Americans have an extremely powerful navy, American troops are much better equipped compared to Soviets, and the fact that nearly all American households are armed with firearms, and the result is a country that is virtually impossible to invade.

I know HOI is about alternate history but if the Germans couldn't invade the UK which lies just across a tiny channel, and couldn't beat the USSR, which it shared a border with, what chance do they have against the Americans who are across the ocean? It should still be possible but I hope the extreme difficulty of this scenario is reflected in the game, unlike in HOI3. This will add realism and depth to the game. For instance, the Axis player has to decide if they really want to wake the sleeping giant and the decision to declare war against America will hold more weight to it.

By the same logic, it should be impossible to win as germany, since they lost, if the USA player is so bad he doesn't defend the coastlines of his nation using his giant fleet, he really has it comming.

 

[Denkt]

It is probably nearly impossible to avoid war with US as Germany because if you don't declare war against them they will go down in their focus tree and eventully attack you. The same applies for Japan as well. And generally it is better to strike first.

 

[77Hawk77]

I hope first strike USA won't be that common tbh.

 

[wthomas]

I think the bigger risk the US faces is political. There was a deep division between interventionist/isolationist parties that could have seen the US never initiate the lend lease or give material aid to the UK. As the Axis, it may be more plausible to defeat the US through successful propaganda rather than invasion.

 

[Denkt]

I hope first strike USA won't be that common tbh.

If you think you can make the game easy by ignoring the USA you will most likely be wrong.

As the Axis, it may be more plausible to defeat the US through successful propaganda rather than invasion.

Very doubtful as the game focus on the military stuff not the political things.

 

[77Hawk77]

If you think you can make the game easy by ignoring the USA you will most likely be wrong.

Who said anything about ignoring USA?