The ultimate infantry template against Germany, Russia and most others

[CantGetNoSleep]

13/4/1 - 13 infantry, 4 artillery, 1 Heavy Tank Destroyer, with support companies as per pic

Why?
- The tank destroyer gives you excellent piercing - better than support anti-tank and 2 anti-tank brigades
- It also has enough armour that anyone without AT support (aka most nations other than UK in 1939) won't be able to pierce you
- 4 artillery has more soft attacks than tanks, so will push infantry back with ease
- The support companies are the best value for money (yup, there's no signal company which is overrated IMHO)
- It's pretty cheap at 2000 - a 40 width with support AT and two AT costs 1875 and has worse piercing and zero armour

I've not tried it in MP yet, and I know it won't pierce 40w tanks, but I'm intrigued as it gives you the option to destroy the rubbish infantry most MP min/maxers field and so might allow you to go for the soft sides. If anyone does try it (I'm not going to play MP for a few weeks now), let me know how it goes.

Template - 1936 techs only so soft attack etc will rise.

 

[Simon_9732495]

What would be the use of the template?

For defense it might be unnecessary expensive, because it will not be able to pierce German and Russian Tanks. And these Tank will pierce it. Also not much hardness, defense and Hard Attack.
Is this Infantry really a lot better against good Tanks (that it cant pierce) compared to a pure 40w Infantry? (Or 2 20w)

Or is it used for offense against german and russian Infantry? If yes, are you doing Tanks as well or only these?

 

[donald dawkins]

Sorry lad, this was worked out quite a while ago and is banned in most mp games under the “no space marines” rule.

cant have armor with infantry, can’t have under strength division (less then half strength), can’t template switch if encircled/ trying to avoid convoy raids, can’t have less then 10 width.

these are the general guidelines for infantry templates in decent multiplayer lobbies. There used to be a rule about artillery limits with infantry but these have slackened somewhat.

stil, good for single player I supposed

 

[starcos77]

So its like space marine but with infantry ? How to call them ? Imperial guard ?
In SP it might work but in MP you gonna have a bad time a single support at will pierce your division its near useless in MP

 

[CantGetNoSleep]

What would be the use of the template?

For defense it might be unnecessary expensive, because it will not be able to pierce German and Russian Tanks. And these Tank will pierce it. Also not much hardness, defense and Hard Attack.
Is this Infantry really a lot better against good Tanks (that it cant pierce) compared to a pure 40w Infantry? (Or 2 20w)

Or is it used for offense against german and russian Infantry? If yes, are you doing Tanks as well or only these?

Primarily attack - 20w infantry still has its place. However, most nations can't field large number of tanks for attack, so they rely on 14/4 infantry. However, the problem with that is that is that 14/4 are useless against nations that have tanks (Russia/Germany - as per post title).

As an added bonus, this template also works well in defence - but agreed, it's a lot more expensive than pure infantry but the manpower losses will be tiny vs 20w infantry, AND it'll hold all but the best tanks, even without air superiority.

Now against an enemy with 40w tanks and air superiority - well, nothing will hold.

Try it - see how well it works.

Sorry lad, this was worked out quite a while ago and is banned in most mp games under the “no space marines” rule.

cant have armor with infantry, can’t have under strength division (less then half strength), can’t template switch if encircled/ trying to avoid convoy raids, can’t have less then 10 width.

these are the general guidelines for infantry templates in decent multiplayer lobbies. There used to be a rule about artillery limits with infantry but these have slackened somewhat.

stil, good for single player I supposed

I'm aware some servers still ban it, but many have now relaxed it in order to widen the meta - the same way strat bombers are now again allowed in many places. But yes, if you play on the ones that do a lot of twitch, then the rules are very narrow, I agree.

So its like space marine but with infantry ? How to call them ? Imperial guard ?
In SP it might work but in MP you gonna have a bad time a single support at will pierce your division its near useless in MP

Imperial guard had me laughing. The biggest difference with space marines is tank destroyers rather than just a tank. Cheaper and better piercing. And in MP, well... let's see. Some people still ban it because this shreds their meta (which is pretty tired by now because anything that breaks them - strat bombing, mixing tanks, mixing tanks and infantry, sub 4s, etc is all banned), but if it's not banned, then I think it might catch people quite unaware. I'll see it next time I play a MP game.

 

[starcos77]

Imperial guard had me laughing. The biggest difference with space marines is tank destroyers rather than just a tank. Cheaper and better piercing. And in MP, well... let's see. Some people still ban it because this shreds their meta (which is pretty tired by now because anything that breaks them - strat bombing, mixing tanks, mixing tanks and infantry, sub 4s, etc is all banned), but if it's not banned, then I think it might catch people quite unaware. I'll see it next time I play a MP game.

I agree with that the meta is really restrictive, but for that case i dont see why they are bann they are easy counter to space marine (support at) and with LAR its really easy for the spy master of your enemy to see the enemy's template.

 

[Simon_9732495]

Primarily attack - 20w infantry still has its place. However, most nations can't field large number of tanks for attack, so they rely on 14/4 infantry. However, the problem with that is that is that 14/4 are useless against nations that have tanks (Russia/Germany - as per post title).

Well, if you can't field a large number of Tanks you maybe shouldn't attack a Player Russia/Germany.

 

[desphorin]

Primarily attack - 20w infantry still has its place. However, most nations can't field large number of tanks for attack, so they rely on 14/4 infantry. However, the problem with that is that is that 14/4 are useless against nations that have tanks (Russia/Germany - as per post title).

As an added bonus, this template also works well in defence - but agreed, it's a lot more expensive than pure infantry but the manpower losses will be tiny vs 20w infantry, AND it'll hold all but the best tanks, even without air superiority.

Now against an enemy with 40w tanks and air superiority - well, nothing will hold.

Try it - see how well it works.



I'm aware some servers still ban it, but many have now relaxed it in order to widen the meta - the same way strat bombers are now again allowed in many places. But yes, if you play on the ones that do a lot of twitch, then the rules are very narrow, I agree.



Imperial guard had me laughing. The biggest difference with space marines is tank destroyers rather than just a tank. Cheaper and better piercing. And in MP, well... let's see. Some people still ban it because this shreds their meta (which is pretty tired by now because anything that breaks them - strat bombing, mixing tanks, mixing tanks and infantry, sub 4s, etc is all banned), but if it's not banned, then I think it might catch people quite unaware. I'll see it next time I play a MP game.

It's banned not only because it breaks the meta; it's because there is literally no other way to counter it other than using space marines yourself. Yes you can build a proper tank division, but at the cost of almost 4-fold per division. So ultimately you will have a front line of all space marines facing off each other, and it will just become a ww1 trench warfare style of fighting for 1 tile for months. It's just a slogfest and takes the fun out of the game.

Obviously you can abuse this to people who like you said are unaware of this, but I dont know why you would want to do so if you are playing against human anyway.

 

[kettyo]

It's pretty easy and cheap for the enemy to get 24 piercing and then this template won't do much good.

And by no means they need their own mixed division. Let's say a 8/8 infantry with AT support will probably shred this.

 

[HugsAndSnuggles]

Let's say a 8/8 infantry with AT support will probably shred this.

A piercing of 1940 support AA seems to be enough, actually.

 

[starcos77]

It's banned not only because it breaks the meta; it's because there is literally no other way to counter it other than using space marines yourself.

On a 14/4 with at support gun get 30 piercing with a 1936 tech so its very esay to counter it

 

[Rashie]

It's banned not only because it breaks the meta; it's because there is literally no other way to counter it other than using space marines yourself. Yes you can build a proper tank division, but at the cost of almost 4-fold per division. So ultimately you will have a front line of all space marines facing off each other, and it will just become a ww1 trench warfare style of fighting for 1 tile for months. It's just a slogfest and takes the fun out of the game.

Obviously you can abuse this to people who like you said are unaware of this, but I dont know why you would want to do so if you are playing against human anyway.

More like it's been banned because people don't want to spend template slots on things like suppport AT. The threshold for adding some hard attack and piercing against an infantry division with a tank in it are not that high.

 

[Reman]

A 13/4/1 template isn't particularly useful in SP for the following reasons:

• Before 1940, AI templates have almost no piercing, so simply attaching armored recon is enough to get the armor bonus at a fraction of the cost of heavy AT.
• After 1940, Ai templates have excessive piercing, so a single battalion of heavy AT (even with armor 5) isn't enough to get the armor bonus.
• Piercing AI tanks is an extremely low priority given how the AI almost always underproduces equipment for them. It's much easier to pierce with just support AA.
• Line artillery is a defensive tool. When used on the offense, it'll take excessive casualties such that the player using them would have been better off making CAS or tanks. People drastically overestimate the amount of factories needed to build an airforce that can hold against the AI.

 

[desphorin]

On a 14/4 with at support gun get 30 piercing with a 1936 tech so its very esay to counter it

Not if your rush tank tech and fully xp boost armour (which you probably should with or without banning SMs).

But yea I do agree it's not too hard to counter SMs, might be a bit harsh to say "literally no other counter" in my first comment. But then in every game I see allowing SMs, both sides uses SMs regardless and it sucks all the fun out of it.

 

[kettyo]

A piercing of 1940 support AA seems to be enough, actually.

Yeah, even a 20/0 with support AA will do serious damage to this template on the defense. 8/8 will absolutely massacre it.

 

[dasaard200]

Grunts are 13 INF/4 ARTY/2 AA (+eng, arty, AA, log) XXs ; Armor has 9 tanks/ 10 motor/mech/ 2 SPAA (+eng, motor arty, SPAA, log) XXs in my current game as USSR .
I understand the economics of German 20W armor; but they lack the punch of 40W XX Guards Panzer .

 

[Secret Master]

it's because there is literally no other way to counter it other than using space marines yourself.

Our MP group doesn't ban them. No need. We rarely see them, since most players are pretty good about grabbing at least support AT and keeping it properly teched.

Now, sometimes we see dedicated HTD divisions with INF and multiple HTD battalions, but these aren't meant to be built in large numbers. Instead, someone like the Soviets builds a 12 or so, and they sit in reserve waiting for panzer thrusts. Then these special divisions move up to the line and counter the panzers. They don't get used like space marines due to a lack of soft attack. (no line ART)

the rubbish infantry most MP min/maxers field and so might allow you to go for the soft sides.

I wouldn't try it against our "rubbish" infantry in MP. Though, again, we see plenty of support AT and AA in top tier infantry divisions.

The support companies are the best value for money (yup, there's no signal company which is overrated IMHO)

I don't see LOG. I'd consider that a flaw. With a supply draw of 2.3, you could make a real difference with 1939 LOG companies during most large operations.

 

[Eh up me duck]

Infantry templates don't win wars. You could keep 18-width vanilla templates and it wouldn't make any difference to your ability to win.

The only nations who care about infantry templates are minors who will probably just go 16/2 anyway.

 

[STABBY5]

Sorry lad, this was worked out quite a while ago and is banned in most mp games under the “no space marines” rule.

cant have armor with infantry, can’t have under strength division (less then half strength), can’t template switch if encircled/ trying to avoid convoy raids, can’t have less then 10 width.

these are the general guidelines for infantry templates in decent multiplayer lobbies. There used to be a rule about artillery limits with infantry but these have slackened somewhat.

stil, good for single player I supposed

It's banned not only because it breaks the meta; it's because there is literally no other way to counter it other than using space marines yourself. Yes you can build a proper tank division, but at the cost of almost 4-fold per division. So ultimately you will have a front line of all space marines facing off each other, and it will just become a ww1 trench warfare style of fighting for 1 tile for months. It's just a slogfest and takes the fun out of the game.

Obviously you can abuse this to people who like you said are unaware of this, but I dont know why you would want to do so if you are playing against human anyway.

Yes well most multiplayer lobbies are brain dead. I'm really not sure what they think motorized is other than infantry. Armor and foot infantry is just what everyone did in real life. You counter it with support AA and MAYBE support AT. They are just inflexible and bad.

 

[ComradeKroo]

Not enough to counter Medium Tank 40. MedTank40 have ~ 50-60 Armor, and you need atleast 2 TDs to hold defense.
Most of battle between 40 vs 40, i found that MedTank40 have incredibly advantage when defense forces cant reinforce, attacker break the line and then defender can be easily overrun because they are too slow.

Overrun mechanic is OP and unrealistic, no mater how many divisions stand defense on, when the defenders too late to reinforce and battle is lost, they are in serious danger of being Overrun.