The truth behind the seville -> genoa endnode change

[yerm]

They currently seem to love piledriving Hungary, and they carve up MOST of the rest of the Balkans. Then, Venice depending, they can end up all the way up the Dalmatian coast. I'd say they actually come reasonably close to historical in terms of their European movements in my experiences and games I've watched. They totally underperform in the OTHER directions! Meanwhile, as for alternate history, while them taking the city of Vienna was likely, them conquering it was a bit untenable. I mean, Napoleon took Vienna, it wasn't going to stay French. Suleiman winning that would have meant he took control of (or secured for his vassal) all of Hungary, but he wasn't going to be able to keep it.

As for Spain going into Europe, more missions should be good, but the other issue is that it's imperial territory indefinitely and doesn't leave, which means you have issues as a non-HRE.

 

[Dorevai]

If we're talking about more action in Europe, the Ottomans need some nudging that way.

They should have missions for Vienna, Venice and Hungary.

Heck, in real life it was close to a miracle they didn't conquer Vienna.

The current cultural and trade setup discourages them from pushing hard to the west, which is silly.

Yea it'd be nice if the flow of the Danube was more evident in the trade map and how Turkey progresses northwest. Ragusa/Wien discourage them from conquering Hungary. Likewise, only missions really convince them to go for Tunis. Tunis should flow to Constantinople, encouraging Turkey to put more of North Africa under its "protection".

 

[oblio-]

They currently seem to love piledriving Hungary, and they carve up MOST of the rest of the Balkans. Then, Venice depending, they can end up all the way up the Dalmatian coast. I'd say they actually come reasonably close to historical in terms of their European movements in my experiences and games I've watched. They totally underperform in the OTHER directions! Meanwhile, as for alternate history, while them taking the city of Vienna was likely, them conquering it was a bit untenable. I mean, Napoleon took Vienna, it wasn't going to stay French. Suleiman winning that would have meant he took control of (or secured for his vassal) all of Hungary, but he wasn't going to be able to keep it.

As for Spain going into Europe, more missions should be good, but the other issue is that it's imperial territory indefinitely and doesn't leave, which means you have issues as a non-HRE.

I think you mean "conquering Venice = likely; holding it = untenable". Probably true. But still, they are under perfoming as they probably conquer Vienna or Austrian regions around Vienna only in 1/100 games. And let's not even talk about over performing i.e. actually conquering all of Austria and maybe even making it into Italy. I think I've seen them conquer Venice once, in a screenshot on reddit.

When I'm saying this I'm comparing them with other great powers, which I have seen over perfoming in a much larger percentage (definitely more than 1%). Austria, France, etc.

 

[bbqftw]

jet fuel can't melt steel trade nodes

 

[Christopholes]

I actually see Ottomans eat Naples every so often if Naples gets independence from Aragon pre Iberian Wedding. I think one of the reasons ottos don't perform as well in Europe is PLC and Austria being too powerful and often allied to each other. Russians rarely manage to punch through the commonwealth for the same reason. Again anecdotes/confirmation bias but in the games I've played since El Dorado Austria/PLC is the Final Boss as the HRe is content to let Austria snake around through and devour them.

 

[chrnno]

I think you mean "conquering Venice = likely; holding it = untenable". Probably true. But still, they are under perfoming as they probably conquer Vienna or Austrian regions around Vienna only in 1/100 games. And let's not even talk about over performing i.e. actually conquering all of Austria and maybe even making it into Italy. I think I've seen them conquer Venice once, in a screenshot on reddit.

When I'm saying this I'm comparing them with other great powers, which I have seen over perfoming in a much larger percentage (definitely more than 1%). Austria, France, etc.

Interesting it is seems like it is due to us using the word 'overperform' differently but out of all major powers I feel Ottomans are the only ones who truly overperform that is push advantages they have at any point as much as possible.

Other majors(France especially due to their seemingly goals being the easily obtained french region) all seem keep to certain borders outside of PUs, events and such regardless of how well they are doing so it is pretty hard to tell the difference between doing good, great or awesome. Ottomans on the other hand just keep going for as long as they can with no specific borders, I have seen in my games them conquer to Zanzibar, India, Danzig and Moscow though off course not in the same game. Only country I have ever seen get close in terms of actual conquest were the Timurids and they are a paper tiger later on and on that patch at least had no interest on changing from horde.

 

[Florryworry]

jet fuel can't melt steel trade nodes

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