The truth behind the seville -> genoa endnode change

[Florryworry]

So commonsense introduces these fancy new forts right. Ok so now picture portugal and now picture their trade income. Now picture their 50 islands in the pacific. Now picture those forts being maxed out and maintened while Portugal is forced to move from 3 lvl 3 advisors to one lvl 2 advisor and maybe build 1 less heavy ship. Now imagine trying to pry those islands off of portugal without bursting out in tears


K so pdox was doing their multiplayer shenanigans testing games and realized this was pretty poopy so they introduced being able to ask for provinces you havent occupied in peacedeals. Obviously the main reason.
Although thats all well and good thats expensive and people might still want to siege those 50k forts solution: impoverish or rather provide the ability to impoverish portugal without neccesarily nerfing portugal to the ground. -> genoa end node.

There you have it folks undeniable proof that pdox despises islandhopping like the rest of us. Also hats off to paradox for this elegant solution.

 

[yerm]

So you are suggesting that they made an exit for the Portuguese end node to provide players with a way of stifling their economy, to force them to close down island fort strings?

I like it. Mind explaining horde nerfs now? You probably know their reasoning too.

 

[Wizzington]

It had nothing to do with islands and everything to do with wanting Spain to care more about Europe.

 

[Florryworry]

So you are suggesting that they made an exit for the Portuguese end node to provide players with a way of stifling their economy, to force them to close down island fort strings?

I like it. Mind explaining horde nerfs now? You probably know their reasoning too.

dude have you even seen jake's golden horde, dude they probably planned on hiring that guy months before it actually happened but they had to nerf hordes to get any productivity out the multiplayer sessions. thougt thia was common knowledge

 

[BFTeixeira]

It had nothing to do with islands and everything to do with wanting Spain to care more about Europe.

Where does Portugal factor in that equation?

 

[klingonadmiral]

It had nothing to do with islands and everything to do with wanting Spain to care more about Europe.

Will the various Italy-interested European powers (FRA, HAB, SPA) pick missions to get into Italy more often come 1.12? I don't think I have ever seen any coordinated push into Italy apart from the French grabbing Savoy.

 

[Naresh]

It had nothing to do with islands and everything to do with wanting Spain to care more about Europe.

I can approve of this, Too often I see Spain do nothing in games other than eat southern Italy.

 

[yerm]

Where does Portugal factor in that equation?

Nobody cares about Portugal.

In all seriousness, the Lubeck node is usually quite good until halfway through the game. I expect Seville to stay overpowered even longer, if not sometimes indefinitely, and barring human intervention it should be a rich node AT LEAST until historically Portugal was brought under personal union.

Personally I'd like more current end nodes to function this way, and in fact, all end nodes really should be inland.

 

[net.split]

Portugal gets lots of boats and trade bonuses. Whether Spain forwards from or collects in Seville, Portugal will still get a substantial piece of that pie, just like they always have. Actually Portugal should have a somewhat larger share of it from provincial power alone since the Aragon side is now firmly in the Genoa node.

As far as island hopping goes, I'm pretty sure building a bunch of big forts on your island colonies is a really good way to screw yourself over. Those islands will never pay for those forts on their own, especially the tropical ones that won't be able to build much of anything else if you take a slot with a fort. Plus, the main benefit of forts is that they protect adjacent tiles, forcing the enemy to move about awkwardly and controlling wider swaths of land. You get none of those benefits from a fort on a single-province island.

The fort change actually makes island-hopping much more palatable since most islands will be unprotected (whether controlled by players or AI). You just plop a troop onto the island and take it. Alternatively if forts on islands protect all the other islands on the same sea tile (or scarily, all adjacent sea tiles too) then you do have to do a bit of work to load up a large enough army on that one island fort. But then once you take it, you get all the surrounding islands for free.

In general, big scary island forts will be limited to very specific circumstances, like Rhodes. And those specific circumstances promise to be really awesome.

 

[Comes Imperii]

Added to the Ultimate Conspiracy Theories volume. Good work OP

 

[Florryworry]

Portugal gets lots of boats and trade bonuses. Whether Spain forwards from or collects in Seville, Portugal will still get a substantial piece of that pie, just like they always have. Actually Portugal should have a somewhat larger share of it from provincial power alone since the Aragon side is now firmly in the Genoa node.

As far as island hopping goes, I'm pretty sure building a bunch of big forts on your island colonies is a really good way to screw yourself over. Those islands will never pay for those forts on their own, especially the tropical ones that won't be able to build much of anything else if you take a slot with a fort. Plus, the main benefit of forts is that they protect adjacent tiles, forcing the enemy to move about awkwardly and controlling wider swaths of land. You get none of those benefits from a fort on a single-province island.

The fort change actually makes island-hopping much more palatable since most islands will be unprotected (whether controlled by players or AI). You just plop a troop onto the island and take it. Alternatively if forts on islands protect all the other islands on the same sea tile (or scarily, all adjacent sea tiles too) then you do have to do a bit of work to load up a large enough army on that one island fort. But then once you take it, you get all the surrounding islands for free.

In general, big scary island forts will be limited to very specific circumstances, like Rhodes. And those specific circumstances promise to be really awesome.

Ok, fair enough, good point. However AI portugal will build ALL the buildings (insert 9gagpic meme here).

It had nothing to do with islands and everything to do with wanting Spain to care more about Europe.

I dunno Wiz, you're sounding a bit Bill Clinton-Y on this one:

 

[Aries666]

So commonsense introduces these fancy new forts right. Ok so now picture portugal and now picture their trade income. Now picture their 50 islands in the pacific. Now picture those forts being maxed out and maintened while Portugal is forced to move from 3 lvl 3 advisors to one lvl 2 advisor and maybe build 1 less heavy ship. Now imagine trying to pry those islands off of portugal without bursting out in tears


K so pdox was doing their multiplayer shenanigans testing games and realized this was pretty poopy so they introduced being able to ask for provinces you havent occupied in peacedeals. Obviously the main reason.
Although thats all well and good thats expensive and people might still want to siege those 50k forts solution: impoverish or rather provide the ability to impoverish portugal without neccesarily nerfing portugal to the ground. -> genoa end node.

There you have it folks undeniable proof that pdox despises islandhopping like the rest of us. Also hats off to paradox for this elegant solution.

Do you also believe we have never landed on the moon and that aliens abducted JFK?

 

[Florryworry]

Do you also believe we have never landed on the moon and that aliens abducted JFK?

Preposterous, Obviously JFK faked his own death because he wanted to jog on the seychelles with Chroetsjov's famous shoes.

 

[Aries666]

Preposterous, Obviously JFK faked his own death because he wanted to jog on the seychelles with Chroetsjov's famous shoes.

How could I have not know that

 

[Dorevai]

It had nothing to do with islands and everything to do with wanting Spain to care more about Europe.

So...aliens.

 

[BFTeixeira]

So...aliens.

They made up a "Historical Friends" modifier to make nations not go to war, they just have to put a "Historical Enemies" between Spain and the rest of Europe. That's it.

 

[GamingHUD]

They made up a "Historical Friends" modifier to make nations not go to war, they just have to put a "Historical Enemies" between Spain and the rest of Europe. That's it.

Why?

 

[BFTeixeira]

Why?

To make Spain "care more about Europe instead of just sitting in their Peninsula".

 

[GamingHUD]

To make Spain "care more about Europe instead of just sitting in their Peninsula".

I don't really see how the two are comparable. One incentivizes Spain to care about Europe more and the other does nothing except lower opinions slightly.

 

[oblio-]

It had nothing to do with islands and everything to do with wanting Spain to care more about Europe.

If we're talking about more action in Europe, the Ottomans need some nudging that way.

They should have missions for Vienna, Venice and Hungary.

Heck, in real life it was close to a miracle they didn't conquer Vienna.

The current cultural and trade setup discourages them from pushing hard to the west, which is silly.