I honestly think that using balance as an excuse for buffing or nerfing a country in pdx games is really illogical given that it is billed as a geopolitical simulation. If I want balance between countries i'll play CIV5
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The true size of countries
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Not sure I would class pdx games as geopolitical simulations, more historically plausible sandboxes but that is a whole different argument. Regardless, if for instance France isn't nerfed Germany may struggle to beat them in 1940 or if Italy isn't buffed then they would likely be seen off much earlier than normal. Essentially what I am getting at is that if things are done for the sake of balance then the game would be very 1 dimensional and none wants to play a game where the result is a foregone conclusion.
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In reference to this and your earlier post:Russia compared to Indonesia:
It is true that Japan had to maintain a very large empire during the Second World War, and they were certainly overextended. However, you must realize that much of their influence is over ocean. Although Russia is on par with the size of Indonesia, Japan doesn't need to have troops stationed over every square mile of that, like Germany did, because they are a major naval power. Furthermore, although the size is similar, the actual square mileage of landmass will not be.
It was the massive losses inflicted on the Japanese navy in 1942 that began the downfall of their empire, particularly the battles of midway, the coral sea, and Guadalcanal; all of which were grapples for air, land, and naval supremacy.
If Japan could no longer keep naval superiority, they could not defend their spread out empire, and the rest is history
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Transporting a ton of goods 1 mile over land is many times more expensive, then by sea.
Also, numbers involved in fighting in the Pacific were much less then on the Eastern Front. Trouble lay more with "warehouse space" - hard to cram thousands of tons of supplies on an island with a 5 square miles area.
Also, numbers involved in fighting in the Pacific were much less then on the Eastern Front. Trouble lay more with "warehouse space" - hard to cram thousands of tons of supplies on an island with a 5 square miles area.
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that's true but I would draw the line at making the impossible possible. for example it is possible that the germans could have reached moscow it is possible that the french and british could have held the germans it is possible for italy to reach the suez it is not possible to move ships from singapore to the northern malay coast in the time it takes in game it is not possible for japan to cross burma in less than two weeks. it is not possible for an infantry division to move across new guinea faster than poland (from bottom to top) . theas kind of things
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Fair enough I can't say I see any problem with making the smaller details more accurate so long as it doesn't impinge on the grander strategic level of the game. For example if countries got bogged down for too long travelling through uncontested territory. This isn't really a problem for a human as we are able to judge what is/isn't worth getting bogged down for. However, if the AI isn't up to snuff and sends too many troops to strategically negligible regions then faster travel times whilst not ideal can alleviate the issue somewhat.
Ukraine compared to North Africa:
Supplying armies in North Africa should be a huge logistical challenge - the previous 3 iterations of HOI have not modeled this accurately.
Supplying armies in North Africa should be a huge logistical challenge - the previous 3 iterations of HOI have not modeled this accurately.
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The whole point of this thread is to state that Africa and Asia are larger than Europe.Ukraine compared to North Africa:
Supply armies in North Africa should be a huge logistical challenge - the previous 3 iterations of HOI have no modeled this accurately.
Yes, we understand that.
If using a map bothers you that much, then build a mod that will project the map on a globe. Then there will be no distortion.
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I agree with you in general, however, to be fair it does take a long time to move through New Guineau and Burma, as well as most of Southeast Asia, and much of China because of the rough terrain - jungles, mountains, rivers, and very low infrastructure. That balances out the size problems somewhat but I don't know if it's enough, or if that was done on purpose or by chance.
To be fair, is there any WW2 simulation game out there that actually does model supply transport, distances, and movement realistically and accurately?
Remember how you could conquer Japan in 2 weeks in HOI3?
Now it's a slightly more challenging undertaking.
Now it's a slightly more challenging undertaking.
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Compare the original size of Japan to the "true" size of Japan. The difference is not even a few hundreds kilometers. That can be advanced over in no time...Remember how you could conquer Japan in 2 weeks in HOI3?
Now it's a slightly more challenging undertaking.
If this were EUIV, CK2, or even Vic2, you could make that argument. They are games that, after all model a century (for Vicky) or more (up to almost 700 years for CK2 with all DLC) of time, and allow various goals that can be built on over time.
HOI4, on the other hand, is essentially a decade, and focused on WWII. If the game is even close to realistic, then the Axis would lose every time, and the most interesting question would be "where exactly does the Iron Curtain fall?" Now, that could be an interesting game in itself (with Soviet, American and British players attempting to conquer the Axis such that they gain as much of the spoils as possible), but it's not exactly what most people are looking for in an HOI game.
So some sacrifices clearly will need to be made for balance purposes. The question becomes: how many?
In reference to this and your earlier post:
It is true that Japan had to maintain a very large empire during the Second World War, and they were certainly overextended. However, you must realize that much of their influence is over ocean. Although Russia is on par with the size of Indonesia, Japan doesn't need to have troops stationed over every square mile of that, like Germany did, because they are a major naval power. Furthermore, although the size is similar, the actual square mileage of landmass will not be.
It was the massive losses inflicted on the Japanese navy in 1942 that began the downfall of their empire, particularly the battles of midway, the coral sea, and Guadalcanal; all of which were grapples for air, land, and naval supremacy.
If Japan could no longer keep naval superiority, they could not defend their spread out empire, and the rest is history
Do you even read?
As I wrote before,
In WW2, the German empire was 3.6 million km of land territory at its largest extent.
The Japanese empire was 7.4 million km of land territory.
The actual true size of Japan's empire is what made it vulnerable to interdiction and commerce raiding. If it's not the right size, Japan has too easy of a time.
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The relatively smaller size of Japan's Empire also makes it easier for the Allies to retake it.
You certainly don't get a 3 year Pacific Campaign in HOI3, more like 3 months.
You certainly don't get a 3 year Pacific Campaign in HOI3, more like 3 months.
This thread reminds of why I stopped worrying about how realistic the movement rates, ranges, and distances are in war games. In some games I've played they are totally artificial, with no relation to reality whatsoever. If I let that bother me too much, I wouldn't play any historical wargame. If I focused on how accurately the range of B29 bomber is simulated in the Pacific versus a B17 in Europe, I would be totally frustrated. How about the speed of a carrier TF traveling from Tokyo to Wake Island in the game versus real life, or the speed of a panzer division advancing across Poland versus the speed of a Soviet Tank divison advancing across Mongolia, and versus real life? They probaby bear no relation to reality in HOI3 or HOI4. So I don't worry about it - much...
The problem with the pacific theater is not the scale. Its that America won't capture a single flippin island
Sweden compared to the ME:
I guess this is why Paradox refuses to implement this.
I guess this is why Paradox refuses to implement this.
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I think people are well aware of the issue of the map causing distortion. As long as a flat map is used these issues are inevitable.
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