The trouble with "Time of Troubles"

[unmerged(108230)]

I'm playing as the Teutonic Order.
I have been at peace for some 40 years (1480s now), and for about 30 of these I have had the ToT active. I have been killing rebels as quick as they appear, almost all my provinces (added 4 new -peaceful playstyle this time-) are cores. Is this normal?

 

[unmerged(136398)]

In my earlier game as Ming I was hunting rebels ping-ponging around for roughly 5 hours realtime... So yes, it seems like this horrible feature actually works like this.

Btw, for how long do you have to be rebelfree for the times of trouble to wear off? In my Ming game there were no rebels at times, but after just days or weeks new pretenders would pop up...

Rebels are seriously horribly implemented in this game. I realize that fanboys like to defend their games, but fucking seriously, how can the rebel system of EU3 be defended in any way? EU3 is a great game, but having to deal with rebels in it seriously sucks the fun out of it. As a way to represent rebellions, there should simply be tax and production penalties. That or you should be able to have the AI do the ping-ponging for you.

/Teutonic

 

[unmerged(11600)]

Btw, for how long do you have to be rebelfree for the times of trouble to wear off?

Anywhere from a single day to never getting out of it for the remainder of the game. It's a random event, not a triggered modifier.

-Pat

 

[unmerged(74857)]

Btw, for how long do you have to be rebelfree for the times of trouble to wear off? In my Ming game there were no rebels at times, but after just days or weeks new pretenders would pop up...
/Teutonic

MTH is 84 days, and you lower it by having good stability, a great ruler and great statesman adviser.

 

[Trin Tragula]

This is actually quite a lenient problem considering the root of it is that you've taken over about 1/3 of the world. Empire's do collapse, especially big ones with oppressed citizens (ie serfdom)

 

[unmerged(134505)]

Can I just say I wholly sympathise with this problem and disagree with those saying how easy it is to counteract.
Maybe it's fine if you are later in the game with a big, successful empire to support loads of troops.
But sometimes you can't have stacks of 6k in every province. ToT isn't good news for the economy so you can't necessarily afford the support.
The biggest problem is that Revolt Risk rises 10% in all provinces so Revolts are happening quicker than you can kill them.
Playing Japan and hit by ToT around 1500, my armies are spread around Asia, and Revolts are often 9k plus a good general. You can concentrate to kill one but it takes too long to kill several at the same time.
So you can never stop the ToT and it just gets worse and worse.

I think the answer is to avoid in the first place by moving the Serfs slider to Free (at least to -2) before moving the Centralised left of -2. There was me thinking it was good to push to max Central as early as I could only to face ToT triggers.

But equally, I'm not keen to push too far to Free early on. I'll need the -ve Stab modifier during all those Westernisation Stab hits.

Any thoughts about what my optimum slider strategy should be?

 

[unmerged(74857)]

The best way to get rid of ToT... is to never get it. I suppose this is your last empire building game where you allow your sliders to trigger this

	trigger = {
		num_of_cities = 5
		NOT = { has_country_flag = time_of_troubles }
		NOT = { centralization_decentralization = -2 }
		NOT = { aristocracy_plutocracy = -2 }
		NOT = { serfdom_freesubjects = -2 }
		war = yes
	}
.....
	
	title = "EVTNAME3001"
	desc = "EVTDESC3001"

	immediate = {	
		set_country_flag = time_of_troubles
		stability = -2	
	}
	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTA3001"			# Dire times are ahead of us
		prestige = -0.01
	}

Also, it takes at least 1000 days to get rid of ToT. (is this new to HttT?)

	trigger = {
		has_country_flag = time_of_troubles
		had_country_flag = { flag = time_of_troubles days = 1000 }
		NOT = { num_of_revolts = 1 }
		war = no
		stability = 1
	}	
	mean_time_to_happen = {
		months = 84
....
	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTA3008"			# Restore order
		clr_country_flag = time_of_troubles
		clr_country_flag = religious_struggles
		clr_country_flag = national_instability
		clr_country_flag = unrest
		clr_country_flag = war_exhuastion
		clr_country_flag = famine
		clr_country_flag = inefficient_ruler
		stability = 2
	}

 

[Tjuk]

Rebels are seriously horribly implemented in this game. I realize that fanboys like to defend their games, but fucking seriously, how can the rebel system of EU3 be defended in any way?

Disqualifying your opponents opinion by calling them fan-boys followed up by daring them to have an opinion is ripe rhetorical dickery. Games should be fun, but what is fun is in the eye of the beholder. Easy, for instance, is not considered fun by most of the target audience of Paradox games. If you play a shooter and run straight at the enemy, get shot and have to start over again, I guess that game can get quite tedious to. Solving the large oppressive empire puzzle is quite an advanced concept in this game. Ignoring it will get you into a world of hurt. Paradox took time to implement the tools to deal with this problem in a way other than marching your armies around. There are several cultural, religious and national decisions that, at a price, will get your revolt risk down. You can try to hire high judges, tech rush courthouses, enact the provincial court system decision in as many provinces as possible. If all of this doesn't help you can even start changing your sliders, or grant inaccessible patches of land autonomy by releasing them (temporarily) as vassals. Rebels are annoying to deal with indeed, but only if you refuse to deal with the underlying problem.

 

[jdrou]

Also, it takes at least 1000 days to get rid of ToT. (is this new to HttT?)

Yes, this trigger did not exist before HttT (and was bugged in the initial release and fixed in the beta patch).

 

[unmerged(134505)]

Hey, the coding is interesting and useful. I assume "NOT = -2" means that it won't trigger if the slider is -2, -1, 0, +1, .... ?
But why does the code not mention that you get 10 extra revolt risk in all provinces? That's the real killer and it doesn't seem to be in that bit of code.

 

[The_Carbonater]

Isn't it horribly unfun being able to conquer all that in 200 years? Where is the plausibility?

 

[jburns]

The biggest problem is that Revolt Risk rises 10% in all provinces so Revolts are happening quicker than you can kill them.

Just hire three judges (at least I think they’re called judges), they can easily mitigate most of the 10%, making ToT hardly noticeable. I keep my armies on 25% maintenance all through ToT because the judges keep rebellions down so effectively.

 

[DarthJF]

The best way to get rid of ToT... is to never get it. I suppose this is your last empire building game where you allow your sliders to trigger this

Or he can just delete the event if he thinks it shouldn't be in the game.

 

[jdrou]

Hey, the coding is interesting and useful. I assume "NOT = -2" means that it won't trigger if the slider is -2, -1, 0, +1, .... ?

Exactly.

But why does the code not mention that you get 10 extra revolt risk in all provinces? That's the real killer and it doesn't seem to be in that bit of code.

The ToT is actually multiple events in the file events\timeoftroubles.txt that can fire if you have the flag that is set by that initial event. Most of these events set modifiers which affect you for 6 years.