The Timurids - What a Nightmare!

[unmerged(20077)]

You start with all your provinces wrong culture apart from your capital, and most of them wrong religion as well. Most of them are dirt poor and half of them have no fortresses. You start with -3 stability. The early game goes like this: Revolt! Enemy in Sight! Revolt! Enemy in Sight! X has declared war on us! Revolt! Enemy in Sight! Y has declared war on us! etc. After several years of this, Stability eventually gets raised to the dizzy heights of -1, before being knocked down again by Poor Government Policies, raised back up to -1, knocked back down by Unhappiness Among the Peasantry (which naturally gives another Enemy in Sight... there were so many of these, I didn't even notice Mekran had revolted away), raised back to -1, knocked down again by another Poor Government Policies...
Now it's 1440 and having finally got +3 stability, fought off several enemies and bought others off by giving them impoverished Shi'ite sheep provinces and finally started getting slightly more money from tax than the upkeep of my modest army costs... I find that in 10 or 11 years, an event will knock my stability all the way back down to -3, make all my neighbours hate me, cause everywhere in the Empire to revolt (especially province 588 - that's going to be Isfahan, isn't it? I just know it is!) and make my army disappear.
I think I'd rather play Granada again... :wacko:

 

[unmerged(37774)]

Focus on lowering your BB.

Let Mekran go right away as a vassal.

Other then that all you have to do is survive into the 1500s and you'll be in good shape. Hahaha

It can be done though.

 

[unmerged(20077)]

I released all possible vassals - Baluchistan, Transoxania and Bukhara - as soon as possible.

 

[Incompetent]

...

Try the 1492 scenario: you get some cores, no BB or inflation, and the crazy RR period has passed; you do lose many provinces relative to 1419, but they were mostly wrong culture and religion anyway. I wouldn't play 1419 Timurids unless you want an extra challenge, or you're desperate to keep Persia.

 

[Duke of Wellington]

Sometimes theres nothing to do but lose. The Timurids are a prime example. But losing all those provinces only make it all the more sweet once you're the Mughals and absolutely kicking arse taking back everything.

 

[curtis]

The Timurids are a pain in the ass to play as

I cheated out the wazoo (montezuma and russianhordes) and was barely able to keep the empire together.

The releasing of vassals is a good idea, although I would be keen to keep Hormuz.

 

[Waffen9999]

In AGCEEP Timurids are even harder. You HAVE to let go of your empire. There is no choice in the events, your empire WILL disintegrate.

 

[unmerged(20077)]

Giving up your empire is only possible when you can release Persia, by which time it's already too late. You never have the money for a decent army and in spite of manpower 40+ looking good, only Samarkand can raise more than 1000 men (most provinces can't raise armies at all) rebels keep appearing in huge numbers (three times 12000 rebs have appeared in Hormuz, which has no fort at all) which then triggers more rebels on the other side of the Empire, somehow. This prompts everyone to declare war. The first time, I got away with it by sheer luck because the rebels kicked the Uzbeks and my government fell before anyone could grab a single province. By the way, this isn't the consequence of the Disintegration event: that's all over. This is just normal life among the heirs of the Il-Khans. The Timurids should not even be listed as a playable nation.

 

[Surgünoglu]

Ah, but sometimes the center does hold.

 

[Jomini]

Ignore stab for the time being. Keep some mobile cavalry in a few provinces, more preferable is to have them waiting off shore in the Persian Gulf. When at war - lose. Give away everything that is useless. Personally I'd try to ditch all the Shi'ite provinces except Isfahan and Tabaristan. The colonies can be made state religion and culture easily. This gives you some good manpower, a chance for lucrative random conversion, and of course high value provinces.

Rebels you can just let walk out of the country to go harass your neighbors.

 

[unmerged(20077)]

I started to believe in hard-coded revolts... by playing with the tolerance sliders I reduced all my Shi'ite provinces down to 1 or 2 percent, but they still kept revolting and still kept producing ridiculous sized rebel armies. Was I just really unlucky? Whenever rebels appeared, the vultures gathered - the Uzbeks and the Caliphate would immediately declare war. The real problem is the utterly pathetic levels of money and recruitment because nearly all provinces are full of poor shepherds. Cavalry armies are no good - the rebels are always in the mountains.
My plan now is to play Benin until about 1490 then maybe switch to the Timurids if the AI can cope... I didn't want to start in 1492 because I want to test my new AI files.

 

[ForzaA]

3 words:
mint*
cavalry**
vasalise***

* after you can build tax collectors, and you DO want TCs everywhere, despite the added RR.
** Uzbeks in particular have great terrain for that; use infantry in Persia
*** your neighbours are a LOT less likely to dow if they're your vassals, it's no guarantee, ofcourse.

allying with Delhi can be a good idea too (and quite doable early on)


Also: read Peter Ebbesen's The Timurid scientists ...despite it being old, it has lots of useful hints/alternatives.

 

[Jomini]

I started to believe in hard-coded revolts... by playing with the tolerance sliders I reduced all my Shi'ite provinces down to 1 or 2 percent, but they still kept revolting and still kept producing ridiculous sized rebel armies. Was I just really unlucky? Whenever rebels appeared, the vultures gathered - the Uzbeks and the Caliphate would immediately declare war. The real problem is the utterly pathetic levels of money and recruitment because nearly all provinces are full of poor shepherds. Cavalry armies are no good - the rebels are always in the mountains.

Do NOT fight the rebels. Just follow behind them and regain control. If there are not enough rebels in the mountains, let them be. Eventually they will seige the province and move on. You will then simply need to take the province back.

When the AI attacks - give them land. This eliminates some rebel problems, lowers BB, and gives you some time to breath. Once you become the Mughals you can always take the land back.

 

[unmerged(20077)]

Well, that tactic works up to a point, until they capture Samarkand or Isfahan - and it also gives lots of provinces increased RR because of nearby rebs. I played Benin until 1520, then took over the Mughals in time for Babur to take Delhi. Of course, I did find myself lumbered with nearly 20% inflation thanks to the AI

 

[unmerged(15337)]

Of course, I did find myself lumbered with nearly 20% inflation thanks to the AI.

That really isn't bad at all. I believe the Timurids start with some inflation (the other Mongols do), and they usually get a big inflation hit with the breakup event around 1450. In any case, enjoy unleashing the Tiger. My son played the Timurid/Mughals about two years ago, and "unleashing the tiger" has been his favorite EU2 experience. That is one cool event!

 

[unmerged(30040)]

My experience with the Timurids is that it's very hard to hold on to anything, but very rewarding if you do so. Think Super Mughals. Getting rid of the Baluchis is probably a good idea however.

 

[Petrarca]

Ah, but sometimes the center does hold.]

Fantastic.

 

[Stingray]

In AGCEEP Timurids are even harder. You HAVE to let go of your empire. There is no choice in the events, your empire WILL disintegrate.

I find it a lot easier, provinces arn't shiite yet, giving you more income.

 

[Waffen9999]

I find it a lot easier, provinces arn't shiite yet, giving you more income.

Easier at first but having to give them away is still a crappy thing. What I did was just reconquer and vassalize them. Then once I became the Mughal Empire I reannexed them. I wasn't going to give up my lands without a fight. Not after I had almost squashed the Shiite faith.

 

[unmerged(53612)]

Ah, but sometimes the center does hold.

Nice Empire :O

Timurids are a hard civ. to play
Never tried, AnD I think I never will
Try Morroco, or Kaliphate :S