The Terra incognita

[unmerged(11600)]

Obviously El Dorado is a Spanish word and the conquistadors were the primary obessors, but there were rumors of cities of gold in North America and the English were looking for them as well. I think a fair compromise would be to place it in the Southwest PTI, which is were I imagined it in the first place.

A common trick of the natives to get rid of unwelcome European 'guests'; even Cartier in his exploration of the St Lawrence River was told by the natives that those other natives further up the river had vast wealth.

-Pat

 

[cwhomer]

A common trick of the natives to get rid of unwelcome European 'guests'; even Cartier in his exploration of the St Lawrence River was told by the natives that those other natives further up the river had vast wealth.

-Pat

The Raleigh colonists were told the same stories. It's very good example of Native American agency.

 

[L'Afrique]

It's off topic, but I must know what that massive island off California is. Vancouver Island? (Is that even what it's called? The island in BC.)

 

[unmerged(5822)]

It's off topic, but I must know what that massive island off California is. Vancouver Island? (Is that even what it's called? The island in BC.)

That's the Californian peninsula, I'd guess.

It has shrunk a bit since those times, though, and drifted eastwards until it attached itself to California proper. :nods:

 

[cwhomer]

That's the Californian peninsula, I'd guess.

It has shrunk a bit since those times, though, and drifted eastwards until it attached itself to California proper. :nods:

Yep, that's Baja California and the Gulf, whoever sent the mapmaker his reports didn't bother sailing up far. Which is odd because most of the rest of the map fairly accurate and annotated. There's not even a Northwest Passage!

 

[unmerged(11600)]

Yep, that's Baja California and the Gulf, whoever sent the mapmaker his reports didn't bother sailing up far. Which is odd because most of the rest of the map fairly accurate and annotated. There's not even a Northwest Passage!

I have a feeling that the northernmost part of the Gulf is in fact the Colorado River, making the upper part of that 'island' Alta (?) California.

-Pat

 

[Tunch Khan]

I'd rather see a flat Earth for the first century of the game than PTI anywhere!

Decorations = more resources eaten by graphics = less resources available for AI and other important calculations.

This is the most boring post ever, and for the record, there is no such thing as dragons. They are fantasy. There is nothingness beyond the PTI, like etherland. There's nothing more left to see in this thread... move on...

 

[unmerged(55206)]

I do agree with no decorations for pti. I do think that their shouldn't be pti at all. for as your technology incresses your ability to discover more areas unkonown should increase. also certein nations should have a better chance of discovering certien areas easier. the spainish should have better chances at discovering areas in the new world for instance. also the longer you have merchants at a COT you should learn the exploritations from the nations that have merchants their, of course if you are at war this won't count.

 

[Tunch Khan]

But the game ends before your technology can bring you deep inside a desert or jungle or arctic steppes. It's called PTI.

 

[unmerged(6777)]

I do agree with no decorations for pti. I do think that their shouldn't be pti at all. for as your technology incresses your ability to discover more areas unkonown should increase. also certein nations should have a better chance of discovering certien areas easier. the spainish should have better chances at discovering areas in the new world for instance. also the longer you have merchants at a COT you should learn the exploritations from the nations that have merchants their, of course if you are at war this won't count.

The following is only personal oponion and should not be construed as being indicative of what will or won't be included in EU3

I would be most curious to see what the date would be on the earliest accurate map you can find of the African interior, far northern Asia, the Himilayas, or some parts of the SouthAmerican interior and Australian outback. (The PTI regions of EU2). I have -- on and off -- gone looking for such things and in most cases have been unable to find anything that reliably dates earlier than the mid 19th century. The majority are barely a hundred years old, and a few had to wait until satelite mapping could supply the details. Heck...they had better maps of the near side of the moon prior to 1800 than they had of parts of the Earth.

All things considered, I never thought of EU2's PTI as being "impossible to explore", but that that they were so remote and inhospitable that they were barely mapped at all, and were utterly unsuited to colonization attempts during that era. Since any province that you could map in EU2 could also be settled, it seemed to make sense (to me) that these areas were simply left off the map and relegated to PTI for the game's time frame.

So I guess I haven't found it all that unreasonable a limitation. I also don't think that the game would benefit all that much from having fancy graphics overlayed on it in the game. Sure, it would look kind of cool the first few times you saw it (and it would be a fun place to hide an easter egg or two), but after the novelty had worn off I think it would simply become an unnecessary element that few people look at and adds to the graphic requirements.

Example: without looking, how many people can name all the "ornamentations" that were added to the CK terrain map? There are a lot of them, but (1) I rarely used the terrain map except for a quick check before ordering an army into combat, and (2) I rarely -- if ever -- bothered to scroll to portions of the map that were not part of game play. I think that the same would apply to EU2/EU3 or any other game that might come with an "incomplete" map.

 

[cwhomer]

I have a feeling that the northernmost part of the Gulf is in fact the Colorado River, making the upper part of that 'island' Alta (?) California.

-Pat

Yeah, I thought it was a river but I couldn't remember which one and was too lazy to go look up which one. There's really no excuse for that, a good crew member, let alone a captain, would've felt a river current against the ship.

To those who think that artistic PTI will eat up resources, I'm talking about some still drawings, not some animated sprites. If you've ever played Crown of the North, that's the level of eye candy I have in mind. The 3D game map would sit above and "beneath" this would be some sort of mythical matte/table. And anyways, this all just daydreaming.

 

[unmerged(55206)]

But the game ends before your technology can bring you deep inside a desert or jungle or arctic steppes. It's called PTI.

no people knew their was land beyond their but they did not what was beyond there. The fact that you won't get technology to go over there doesn't mean someone didn't live their.

 

[Tunch Khan]

no people knew their was land beyond their but they did not what was beyond there. The fact that you won't get technology to go over there doesn't mean someone didn't live their.

Yes, but we cannot see it, right? And what we can't see, we can't know... And those who made it their, never returned to make the maps!

 

[unmerged(6777)]

Eamples:

World Map, 1607

World Map, 1699

Pacific Region Map, 1754

World Map, 1780

Africa Map, 1821

 

[unmerged(9145)]

This doesn't address the fact that PTI unnecessarily interferes with modding. There's no reason that the provinces can't be added and marked 'unexplorable' for the vanilla game, yet left open for modders to muck with (especially for alternate history scenarios).

Max

 

[L'Afrique]

But since the map will be moddable, anyone who wants to remove the PTI can do so. Modders won't have any problems with the PTI.

 

[unmerged(6777)]

This doesn't address the fact that PTI unnecessarily interferes with modding. There's no reason that the provinces can't be added and marked 'unexplorable' for the vanilla game, yet left open for modders to muck with (especially for alternate history scenarios).

Max

Smashing idea! They should probably also model the sea floor in the off chance that modders want to alter the sea level. And it goes without saying that they map the moon and the non-gaseous plantes in the solar system because modders might want to do something with that as well.

Do you have even the slightest idea how long it takes to do stuff like that? Why would Paradox have one of their artists devote 1-2 weeks of full time work to model something that is never intended for use in the game? :wacko:

L'Afrique is correct. If you want PTI gone, get rid of it yourself.

 

[unmerged(37697)]

Do you have even the slightest idea how long it takes to do stuff like that? Why would Paradox have one of their artists devote 1-2 weeks of full time work to model something that is never intended for use in the game? :wacko:

It would be nice to simply do a full world map. If you're going to do something, why not do it properly? Leaving great chunks of the world impassible is a little silly, IMO. I am looking forward to the idea of playing ahistorically (which, I suppose, is put into effect the minute you click 'Play') and discovering areas which weren't historically.

I understand the need for basic, real-life constraints. I would not ask for an extended, 'what if?' tech tree and national ideas, etc; but the idea of being able to explore areas of the globe which weren't historically during said timeframe would be nice. Just because something wasn't done, doesn't neccesarily mean it couldn't be done.

Seeing as you started your map from scratch for EUIII, I think the best thing would have been to do the entire thing in plenty of depth and detail, and simply add TI where it should be, and let people explore where they want to.

If I want to send a dozen Parisian explorers off to their (almost) certain deaths to try and explore the inner Amazon or Siberia or Tibet, then why should I be stopped from doing so, simply because it wasn't historically done at the time?

It's like saying that in EUII one can't attempt to explore the Americas until 1492, just because Columbus & co. didn't 'till that date, despite the fact that the Norse got there circa 1000.

And besides - as so many here have said before - people will no doubt play completely ahistorically in some scenarios anyway, and make whatever mods they choose to; but I still believe (and presumably, a few like-minded chaps will agree with me) that PTI is a bad idea. I think that you're going against your own argment - no, preaching - in having such an ominous physical restraint in the form of PTI. Get rid of it; it's a dusty relic of a bygone age

 

[unmerged(6777)]

I think that you're going against your own argment - no, preaching - in having such an ominous physical restraint in the form of PTI. Get rid of it; it's a dusty relic of a bygone age

Rule #1: there is a fixed limit on the amount of time available. Anything that would result in game being delayed weeks/months/years and is not a block-level issue (like CTD every 10 seconds) is a luxury.

Rule #2: there is a fixed limit on the budget. Hiring an extra 20 artists to work on visual X, or another 20 programmers to code nifty feature Y is not possible if it buggers up the budget.

Argument: work within those two rules to produce the best and most flexible game possible

I see no contradition whatsoever.

 

[Swuul]

I think Balkans and Portugal will be PTI.