The speed of movement

[Pang Bingxun]

I also believe infra level effects units speed, I remember seeing such differences.

Indeed there are significant differences.

From 100% infra Berlin to 100% infra Cottbus Inf1936 need 24+20-6=38 hours. If Cottbus is reduced to 50% it takes 48+9-6=51 hours. If it is increased to 150% it is 24+6-6=24 hours. At 200% it is 16-6=10 hours. At 0% it is 48+23-6=65 hours. Infra in Berlin does not matter.

According to air units in Berlin the distance to Cottbus is 90 km. The speed is 4.4 km/h(+10% from minister at start of 1936 GC). At this speed it should take 20.45 hours.

About 16 hours per day it is night which gives -15% movement for Infantry and every other land unit. This is 90% speed on average. The start of the actual movement does not seem to matter. I am not sure if night does matter at all for movement.

Cottbus is plains which gives zero effect on movement. Berlin is urban which gives +10% movement for infantry and -30% on HQ, but that does not seem to matter. Only the target province counts.

Removing the +10% speed from ministers i get 18-6=12 hours at 200% Infra, 24+9-6=27 hours at 150%, 48-6=42 hours at 100%, 48+15-6=57 hours at 50% and 72+6-6=72 hours at 0%.

At 200% Infra the average speed speed is 7.5 km/h=1.875x4 km/h.
At 150% Infra the average speed speed is 3.33 km/h=0.8333x4 km/h.
At 100% Infra the average speed speed is 2.14 km/h=0.5357x4 km/h.
At 50% Infra the average speed speed is 1.58 km/h=0.3947x4 km/h.
At 0% Infra the average speed speed is 1.25 km/h=0.3125x4 km/h.

This is exactly 6 times the speed at 200% infra compared to 0% infra.

At 200% Infra the average speed speed is 9 km/h=2.25x4 km/h.
At 150% Infra the average speed speed is 3.75 km/h=0.9375x4 km/h.
At 100% Infra the average speed speed is 2.37 km/h=0.5921x4 km/h.
At 50% Infra the average speed speed is 1.76 km/h=0.4412x4 km/h.
At 0% Infra the average speed speed is 1.38 km/h=0.3461x4 km/h.

With +10% speed from Chief of Staff is does not work quite so well. The last 50% of Infra(150% to 200%) give a factor of 2.4 with the minister and a factor of 2.25 without him. I suppose the 10 vs. 12 hours at 200% are still within rounding and the +10% from the minister are working as one would expect. In any case 200% infra allow really high speed of movement. Increasing infra from 150% to 200% helps a lot.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Another reason to build infrastructure! But still doesn't convince me to build infra in any urban/plains province with less than 7 factories (10 for hills); or a decent amount of resources (4 rares is not enough).

 

[Commander666]

Indeed there are significant differences.

If you know all the much above, why did you even ask the below:

Do logistical strikes reduce the speed of movement?

The correct answer is, "yes".

Infra in Berlin does not matter.

You should recheck this doing proper methodology. Do not reduce next province but only change Berlin.

According to air units in Berlin the distance to Cottbus is 90 km.

Distance of air units has nothing to do with land distance. You don't see the army units sitting in the airport, do you? They are in different parts of the province = different distances. The only valid measurement for land units is "time from point A to point B".

Berlin is urban which gives +10% movement for infantry and -30% on HQ, but that does not seem to matter. Only the target province counts.

That's not right. Try picking a further target province and changing the infra level of the in between provinces that unit traverses. All provinces traversed contribute to total travel time with lower infra ones taking longer to negotiate.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

If you know all the much above, why did you even ask the below:

Because he didn't know this when asking. He's only just discovered it and done some helpful tests to prove it.

You should recheck this doing proper methodology. Do not reduce next province but only change Berlin...
That's not right. Try picking a further target province and changing the infra level of the in between provinces that unit traverses. All provinces traversed contribute to total travel time with lower infra ones taking longer to negotiate.

You appear to misunderstand. He's travelling from Berlin. He's saying the province you travel from has no effect on unit speed.

Distance of air units has nothing to do with land distance. You don't see the army units sitting in the airport, do you? They are in different parts of the province = different distances. The only valid measurement for land units is "time from point A to point B".

It's the only way to caulcate the distance on the map and there's no reason to think it's incorrect.

 

[Commander666]

His test is not helpful to me because I got different results. I understand he's travelling from Berlin. So Berlin needs the infra changed to test if province of origin matters. But he described changing Cottbus to test that as per what I understood.

Air units are a good measure of distance but land units don't travel as to distance but as to time from point A to B. The two different things are not the same and used differently. Distance is for air and sea range limits. Land terrain (includes infra) is for hourly gain. The difference is huge with land walking being a lot of jogs left and right to greatly increase what true distance is compared to the much shorter "as the crow flies". AoD has a good point-to-point distance system but land units do not travel on that system. However, the time estimates they get are extremely reliable.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

His test is not helpful to me because I got different results. I understand he's travelling from Berlin. So Berlin needs the infra changed to test if province of origin matters. But he described changing Cottbus to test that as per what I understood.

I checked both. First i checked Cottbus, there i did note differences in travel time. Changing infra of Berlin however had no effects whatsover on traveltime. Only infra at target matters. So i focussed on what matters.

Air units are a good measure of distance but land units don't travel as to distance but as to time from point A to B. The two different things are not the same and used differently.

There is no indication that the distance is different and in any case it is not lower for land units. I just checked if the visualisation of moving from Frankfurt am Main to Kassel differs for air unts and land units. It does not differ except in color. The arrow visualising the movement has the same origin and target.

Until proven otherwise it seems reasonable to assume that land units and air units move the same in AoD. Naval units however do differ. There the distance is different.

But let me rephrase my point into a question: How would you measure distance for land units? There does not seem to be a away except via air units. If there is a better method i am happy to adapt.

 

[Commander666]

But let me rephrase my point into a question: How would you measure distance for land units? There does not seem to be a away except via air units. If there is a better method i am happy to adapt.

As it is ETA that matters to land units, I would not try to measure distance. Distance alone is meaningless. You need to apply (for land units) the modifiers for terrain and weather. As such, the game gives spot on ETAs that includes all variances of travel - including change in weather (recalibrated upon entering next province)... so why discuss the unnecessary? That's a question to you.

As regards Berlin, I know the game calibrates upon entering province. The assumption would be - because already in province when in Berlin - then no calibration occurs until Cottbus. But that is wrong test because the correct methodology would have been a game restart to get the different calibrations for Berlin (depending on the test infra you gave it) when the game initializes..

 

[Commander666]

Until proven otherwise it seems reasonable to assume that land units and air units move the same in AoD.

This is very wrong because your "visualization" was much too short sighted. It is proven; and you can prove it yourself. Open up game once Vichy exists. I just flew a NAV from Brest to Berlin; and it flies fairly straight and direct passing over Luxembourg. Then I mission my MOT in Brest to go to Berlin. Its route of travel is via Paris, then out to the coast thru Ghent, then hard right to Cologne, then left to swing the long way via Hannover and Rostock to come into Berlin. I would hate to know that "distance".

The two things - air and land routes - are as different as a gas from a solid. Of course, the land unit is trying to capitalize on faster speed using the zig-zag of higher infra provinces. But actually, often player can find faster route (earlier ETA) if doing it manually by what looks more sensible (provided you not going thru a near-zero infra mtn, frozen and covered in snow!).

 

[Pang Bingxun]

As such, the game gives spot on ETAs that includes all variances of travel - including change in weather (recalibrated upon entering next province)... so why discuss the unnecessary? That's a question to you.

The point i made in the initial post does no depend on the exact distance as long as distance remains the same. I just supplied an additional fact to get an idea what actual speed of movement is because it differs a lot from what is shown and also because it is nice to get an idea what that would represent IRL. Marching at 9 mk/h on average is quite something.

As regards Berlin, I know the game calibrates upon entering province.

It calibrates on ordering the concrete movement to the current target. The ETA is always only calculated for the current target. An ETA for moving more than 1 provinces can be displayed ingame, but is not saved in the savegame.

But that is wrong test because the correct methodology would have been a game restart to get the different calibrations for Berlin (depending on the test infra you gave it) when the game initializes..

I always restarted the game because the changes of Infra were created via savegame edit. That is how changing Infra from 0% to 200% occurs conveniently.

 

[Commander666]

So, if all of that is supposed to be right - you might try figuring how I can delay enemy units reaching next province by bombing the infra they are on - because I can replay the same game - not bomb - and have enemy arrive sooner. Anyway, I'll do what I know works in my game. Admitably, bombing province they going to would help to but may not be desirable if you are planning on being there first.

Marching at 9 mk/h on average is quite something.

Standard hiking speed 4 mph (= 6.4kph). Actually it is not marching which the army uses for long distance as true marching is very inefficient and tiring. Rather the grunts "hoof it" (hike).

But 9 kph (I assume that is what you mean with 9 mk/h) = 5.6 mph which is the army equivalent of what they call "time and a half". It is not a full running but running in all the easier places. Very fit soldiers can do that with gear for best part of a day so making 60-70 km.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

But 9 kph (I assume that is what you mean with 9 mk/h) = 5.6 mph which is the army equivalent of what they call "time and a half". It is not a full running but running in all the easier places. Very fit soldiers can do that with gear for best part of a day so making 60-70 km.

well, 9 km/h times 24 h is 216 km. Those are average figures.


Always with the target at 100% infra the moving times for the 110 km from Königsberg to Elbing are 46 hours, for the 90 km from Berlin to Cottbus 38 hours and for the 47 km from Berlin to Potsdam 19 hours. Apart from rounding this small sample seems to prove that air distance is used for landunits, too.

The question of what happens during war and what can be done to delay movement is an important question. I will not try to answer it in this post.

 

[KostasL]

well, 9 km/h times 24 h is 216 km. Those are average figures.

I did once check if the speed of the units refer to an unrealistic 24 hours movement or is limited to more realistic numbers...
and I found out that the real space a unit can move...refers to the space it can move in 10 or 12 hours...or something like that...

 

[Pang Bingxun]

For the measure from the top the average speed equals about 13 hours per 24 hours at the displayed speeds of 4 or 4.4 when infrastructure is 100%. At 200% however it equals 45 to 49 hours per 24 hours. So that logic seems not to apply.

 

[KostasL]

For the measure from the top the average speed equals about 13 hours per 24 hours at the displayed speeds of 4 or 4.4 when infrastructure is 100%. At 200% however it equals 45 to 49 hours per 24 hours. So that logic seems not to apply.

Really ??? !!!!

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Yes, that is what my measurements shown. Pending ministers it takes 12 or 10 hours to move the 90 km to Cottbus with Inf1936 that has speed 4 prior to modifiers.

 

[bosman]

I recently found out, that mobile units (ARM, MOT, MEC) in DH have up to even twice max speed as in AoD. It might seem a bit too much but the values in AoD could be raised to something in between.


motorized infantry:
-----------------------------------------------
_____AoD______ | ______ DH________
-------------------|------------------------
1940 - 12 Kph | 1939 - 27 Kph
1942 - 13 Kph | 1942 - 27 Kph
1944 - 13 Kph | 1945 - 27 Kph
-------------------|------------------------
mechanized infantry:
-------------------|------------------------
1942 - 12 Kph | 1942 - 22 Kph
1943 - 12 Kph | 1945 - 23 Kph
1944 - 12 Kph | 1948 - 24 Kph
-----------------------------------------------

For armour it is more complicated. Still the values are generally higher in DH.